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[badgesareus]

Right from the start, you are slotted straight into a predefined character and then led down a predefined path to a predefined ending.

Did you play Nehrim? Or Arktwend? If so, you shouldn't have been surprised by this, it is the SureAI formula.

[Nicolas Samuel]

@Moirai

I actually can see your point, and I know Enderal isn't perfect. I think I wrote that already somewhere else, but I know that it's linearity is one of the weaker points of Enderal - that is, if you are a player who values choice a lot. The main reason we didn't incorporate more choices is, that it simply wouldn't have been do-able with our limited resources. Basically, the whole story was written, translated, and implemented by just a handful of people, in the end only two (and in the very end, only one person, me). From the very beginning, we had a lot of internal discussion about the scope, and it was very unclear to us if Enderal would ever see the light of day. Now, imagine, you would have been given the choices you were talking about: Essentially, with every decision (provided that it was a meaningful decision), a whole new branch would have opened, which would have doubled the work in every aspect. Teams such as CD Projekt Red or Bethesda usually have, don't quote me on this, somewhere around five to fifteen quest designers (who don't always write the actual dialogue - I think they do at CDProjektRed, but I'm not sure) working on a story, plus, the writers don't do the translation or the voice acting direction (which is a full-time position on it's own). Not to mention that they have artists, scripters, coders, animators, you name it. Basically, we had to do all of this on our own, and most of us had a day-job, at least part-time. I think this is a very important aspect to consider.

That being said, I think if the DLC I plan on developing is going to happen (more information on that soon), there will be a secret ending like the one you were talking about. I thought a lot about this, and I did, under no circumstances, want a "perfect ending" that took all meaning from the story. What I came up with now, is, I believe, a very haunting, beautiful and meaningful alternative to the two current endings which adds a new layer of meaning to the story. Also, I hope that the way of "unlocking" this ending is really interesting. Also, given that there will be a lot of new story content (guilds, very cool side quests), I think that will add a lot of replay-value to the game.

Best,
Nicolas

[ywhtptgtfo]

@Moirai
The main reason we didn't incorporate more choices is, that it simply wouldn't have been do-able with our limited resources. Basically, the whole story was written, translated, and implemented by just a handful of people, in the end only two (and in the very end, only one person, me). From the very beginning, we had a lot of internal discussion about the scope, and it was very unclear to us if Enderal would ever see the light of day. Now, imagine, you would have been given the choices you were talking about: Essentially, with every decision (provided that it was a meaningful decision), a whole new branch would have opened, which would have doubled the work in every aspect.

Yep, that's quite understood. It's amazing your team can deliver so much with so little resources.

That being said, I think if the DLC I plan on developing is going to happen (more information on that soon), there will be a secret ending like the one you were talking about. I thought a lot about this, and I did, under no circumstances, want a "perfect ending" that took all meaning from the story. What I came up with now, is, I believe, a very haunting, beautiful and meaningful alternative to the two current endings which adds a new layer of meaning to the story. Also, I hope that the way of "unlocking" this ending is really interesting. Also, given that there will be a lot of new story content (guilds, very cool side quests), I think that will add a lot of replay-value to the game.

What'd be nice is if the game doesn't end after the main quest so that the player can go back to doing side quests. It's true that we technically can load up a save to just before the final quest and do all the side quests, but this just isn't the same.

[Ragnarok]

What'd be nice is if the game doesn't end after the main quest so that the player can go back to doing side quests. It's true that we technically can load up a save to just before the final quest and do all the side quests, but this just isn't the same.

It makes no sense at all for Enderal to continue after the main quest is done. The point of no return has long been passed by then.

At most, as I suggested in another post, I could see a DLC working on the post Star City ending, having the prophet go through the stages of what happens as he observes, influences and awaits for the next humanity, in age leaps.

[badgesareus]

That being said, I think if the DLC I plan on developing is going to happen (more information on that soon), there will be a secret ending like the one you were talking about. I thought a lot about this, and I did, under no circumstances, want a "perfect ending" that took all meaning from the story. What I came up with now, is, I believe, a very haunting, beautiful and meaningful alternative to the two current endings which adds a new layer of meaning to the story. Also, I hope that the way of "unlocking" this ending is really interesting. Also, given that there will be a lot of new story content (guilds, very cool side quests), I think that will add a lot of replay-value to the game.

Could you please clarify? Are you talking about the Golden Sickle quest line or the Rhalata when you refer to a DLC, or something completely different? When you mention a secret ending, do you mean alternate endings for the DLC, or for the main story? And would the secret ending depend only on choices made in the DLC or would that be affected by choices made before the DLC?

[Moirai]

@Moirai

I actually can see your point, and I know Enderal isn't perfect. I think I wrote that already somewhere else, but I know that it's linearity is one of the weaker points of Enderal - that is, if you are a player who values choice a lot. The main reason we didn't incorporate more choices is, that it simply wouldn't have been do-able with our limited resources. Basically, the whole story was written, translated, and implemented by just a handful of people, in the end only two (and in the very end, only one person, me). From the very beginning, we had a lot of internal discussion about the scope, and it was very unclear to us if Enderal would ever see the light of day. Now, imagine, you would have been given the choices you were talking about: Essentially, with every decision (provided that it was a meaningful decision), a whole new branch would have opened, which would have doubled the work in every aspect. Teams such as CD Projekt Red or Bethesda usually have, don't quote me on this, somewhere around five to fifteen quest designers (who don't always write the actual dialogue - I think they do at CDProjektRed, but I'm not sure) working on a story, plus, the writers don't do the translation or the voice acting direction (which is a full-time position on it's own). Not to mention that they have artists, scripters, coders, animators, you name it. Basically, we had to do all of this on our own, and most of us had a day-job, at least part-time. I think this is a very important aspect to consider.

Nicolas,

Very much appreciate your response. Thank you for your time. And I hope that none of my posts on this forum have caused any offense to yourself, or anyone else on the SureAI team. That certainly isn't my intention. Yes, I've been critical about game stories in places and quite unambiguous with my viewpoints. But, these are just general thoughts and comments that I'm expressing, simply for discussional purposes.

I do fully understand why continual branching pathways would be prohibitively labour intensive. No arguments there. It was one of the reasons why I mentioned the Metro methodology of silently tracking choices and then, provided the prerequisite number of good choices had been made during the play through, a single alternate story branch would occur right near the end to provide a positive end rather than the standard rather melancholy ending. In essence, it's almost identical in many ways to the the 'flirt' system you guys used to track and progress the companion romances.

The idea of a DLC providing another variation on the ending does sound extremely fascinating though. I hope you manage to find the time to make it a reality.

All the best

[Nicolas Samuel]

Hey Moiai, don't worry, absolutely no offense taken - as I said, I even agree with some aspects of your critique, I only wanted to shed some light on the reasons behind these shortcomings.

Badgesareus, I can't say too much yet, but there will be information soon(ish)! Essentially, it will be somewhat of a one-man-project in which I will try to implement some of the stories that have been left out (see "A moment of silence"-thread). As for the secret (main quest) ending, as we plan it now (Subject to change!), it will be similar to what Moiai described in the Metro ending. Players won't know they have unlocked it (even though there are hints) until it happens.

[Newcago]

I wouldn't mind a secret ending at all (and the idea of one really excites me) but I'm glad it wasn't included from the start. Had there been some elusive third ending from the beginning (potentially happy, potentially not) I think I would have wasted time chasing that one and missed out on a lot of the ending themes.

This game is beautiful the way it is, and I think everyone should experience it that way first. But it would nice to do a playthrough in the distant future where I feel like I can look for something new.

[ninjamelody]

Nicholas (manipulator of the high ones),

Thank you for your response and yes, I understand the great deal amount of work would be done if there were going to be more radical choices about the story. I really appreciate the DLC your team is planning, try not to draw boxes on anticipating so I can be surprised!

I'm not sure if this is too personal or you've already given interviews about it, but what is actually the benefit of you making such mods and putting countless hours and some $$$ for the actors/artists, with the team technicall be somewhat underpaid, and we players enjoy them for free?

I'm anticipating the answer is somewhere between:
[Jespar choice] for my own fame, pride, and spotlight for huge game companies to hire me.

and [Non Jespar choice] for the better humanity, for all us to be able to enjoy such experience.

[Nicolas Samuel]

I'm glad you see it that way! I also think that the DLC and the guild questlines (and the very, very, very cool new story missions) will add a lot of re-play value.

@Ninjamelody

Good question! I think it's a mixture of both. The DLC really is a pure passion project, as I would probably be better off applying at the big companies right now. However, developing a DLC also gives me time for my writing projects, and we will soon make an announcement regarding the whole DLC/novelette-project, because we might need some support.

[ninjamelody]

Wow! Re-play value is considered to into the making of this DLC! I hope it will be great for the long wait for TES VI that people are kind of hyped up about it, but I don't think it will come out in 2 years. I looked at "Moment of Silence" topic and saw the list of quests and what made it halted, the DLC will hopefully finish things from that list?

I'm glad it's lean to the 'passion-driven' side of motivation, difficult art projects are kind of de-valued these days (from my perspective) people usually seem to care about the income probability then ended up making generic stuff that they easily make sure they can "sell" even they know it's contradict with what they have in mind.

Your writing project? You mean you also write serious stuff unrelated to mod/video game projects?

[Nicolas Samuel]

Yeah, the DLC will probably feature some of the quests mentioned in the "A moment of silence"-thread, but also some new ones, such as a quest that will explain the Veiled Woman. Plus, the alternative ending wasn't something we had planned on originally.

And yeah, I'm pursuing a serious writing project - in fact, I've almost finished the first draft of my first real novel! Simultaneously with the DLC, I will also begin a second writing project, which I hope people will support in order to allow me to work on the DLC project (The DLC has to remain non-commercial). But more on that in the future!

[Newcago]

Tell us when your novel comes out! I'm more than sold on checking it out, and I'm always looking for new stuff to read anyway.

[ninjamelody]

A novel! That is great. As my musical project is going to be a metal opera (heavy metal albums with songs continuing a story lines with character speaking dialogues as singing), I plan to write a novel for it too, since to story outline has about 50 pages, heavily influenced by RPGs with elves, orcs, and inquisitions. But the time for novel is still unknown.

Questline about the Veiled Woman! Great, I don't mind if it will answer some questions or leave more questions to me.

Sorry off-topic but Skyrim Remastered is coming, will it affect Enderal in anyway? Or there's going to be an update for the compatibility?

[stuemper]

Sorry off-topic but Skyrim Remastered is coming, will it affect Enderal in anyway? Or there's going to be an update for the compatibility?

Enderal won't be affected since Skyrim Remastered is a new game in your Steam library and your old Skyrim will stay where it is (and so Enderal). I can't say anything about the compatibility. This would be such a huge amount of work which also needs preparation from other modders (SKSE, SkyUI to name the bigger ones).. We don't have early access or something similar to the Remastered Version. So we can't say anything and we will not promise anything.

Back to topic please

[BigElectricCat]

Yeah, the DLC will probably feature some of the quests mentioned in the "A moment of silence"-thread, but also some new ones, such as a quest that will explain the Veiled Woman. Plus, the alternative ending wasn't something we had planned on originally. )

No kidding-- that would be amazing!

I know you probably can't give direct answer (that would spoil it) but...

...If part of the idea was sort of a 'victory in defeat' kind of thing...

Seems like changing that ending would be really hard.

Good writing keeps us guessing until the end I suppose.

Cheers!

[Nicolas Samuel]

My lips are sealed!

[enderal_champion]

There were things I loved, things I was unsure of and things that I did not like.

Things I did not like:
Some of the enemies were too tough. Too tough that it killed immersion at times. For instance, a war hammer shouldn't take 500 swings to disassemble a skeleton or kill a giant rat. Ok so that's a bit exaggerated but the point is, some of the monsters were soo tough that it felt unrealistic. I understand it's supposed to be challenging but my personal preference is in immersion so that how I felt about that. Also related to the monsters, I did not like that some of the monsters, particularly the lizard creatures in the desert, were soo tough to kill and their only loot was nothing or maybe a claw that was worthless to keep. I'd like to see the loot, at least be worthy of the effort.

Things I was unsure of:
I felt like the game, overall, was far too dialogue heavy. At times, conversations felt like it drug on. I also was not fond of the fact that there were so little developed cities on an island that had been around for thousands of years. I understand that voice actors were limited but it would've been nice to see, at least, one other major city and about 4-5 smaller towns and villages. This, again, falls into my immersive preference.

Things I loved:
There were a handful of voice actors that delivered the dialogues in a manner that didn't seem natural but overall, I was very impressed with the voice actors. Jespar, Arantheal and Calia, in particular, were very impressive. The romance story mode was done in a very fluid, and natural way and I, personally, began to feel like it was a very real romance. Unlike the romance mods in Skyrim where you pursue the ladies of your choice for the privilege of boinking them, this story felt genuine. I loved the soundtrack. I loved the layout of the world. It felt like playing Skyrim for the very first time again where you didn't know where anything was and you were genuinely exploring to discover locations. I loved the overall storyline and the plot twist at the end was not shocking, but definitely unexpected. I love that I began to feel connections with the characters in the game. Unlike its mother game, Skyrim, where followers are just pack mules and enemy distractors, I actually found myself attempting to rescue my friends and followers, on several occasions. And I actually felt sad when I found Jespar and had to tell him that it was "too late, but there was still hope." Anyhow, very impressive game. And I'm referring to it as a game and not a mod because it didn't feel like a mod. It truly felt like it's own standalone game. Excellent job SureAI.

[ninjamelody]

Hey, I hear you about things you love, don't like, and unsure.
About enemies being tough I did not feel that at all, in fact it was the opposite, I had to turn my difficulty to Master at the beginning, and Iron Path after halfway of the game. I played as an assassin and don't want to kill anybody in just 1 hit. But my character development was very focused and done carefully though.

Yes, I like the voice acting and flow of conversations! About Tealor Arantheal I was suspicious that he's not all good for sure from the badass voice acting, but later on I forgot it until the end game.

I understand about the seemingly non stop dialogues that could go up to 15 minutes, and about 50 with the Black Guardian.

[enderal_champion]

Yes! The Black Guardian conversation was pretty long. It did explain a lot about the sequences of events but I think it would've been nice to have some of those information revealed by others instead of leaving it all to the Black Guardian to explain.