SureAI Forums covering SureAI game titles.

[Gruppen10]

As the title says...Read At Your Own Risk. I just want to tell the SureAI and everyone else what i thought about Nehrim.

So lets start....Beautiful, simply beautiful. Everything seemed well implemented and detailed. Locations/Dungeons/Equipment everything. It rivaled if not surpassed Oblivion in my opinion. I was very enthralled with everything from the Light-Born to the Title of Shadow God and to become one is pretty awesome. The persecution of the Aetearn(i don't remember how to spell their name) felt really intense and real, so nice job on that part . Also the little Romance involved between the player and Kim. I mean i chose to acknowledge her feelings and was pretty DEVASTATED i couldn't save her at the end. Although i wasn't surprised as i should have been, i mean as soon as i met this girl and her feelings started to noticeably develop for the player, i said to myself "She's gonna die". Right on though, it was a good addition to the storyline. Speaking of storyline, man that was intense, i mean the battles, cut-scenes and then just the overall feeling of being apart of something GRAND was almost to much to bear haha.

So thank you SureAI and anyone else who lent their assistance to this stunning Total Conversion. Bravo, it was amazing and i loved every second of it.

Congratulations.

Gruppen.(Yes i know it means Group in German, it's a long story)

[Eolath]

I second the above statement - thanks a load SureAI, this game is WAY better then Oblivion ever will be. (Even with 100+ mods installed, it'll never be better then Nehrim)

The only thing I was rather sad about is the fact that EVERYONE that plays any significant role in the story will eventually die (Even the guy at the start, at the mines, will be killed by trolls later on) - with the exception of the Northrealm king, (And Arkt ofcourse, he's a great guy) .

Every mage, every friend, every ally you develop during the story line gets killed off later.

[JoKeR]

I second the above statement - thanks a load SureAI, this game is WAY better then Oblivion ever will be. (Even with 100+ mods installed, it'll never be better then Nehrim)

The only thing I was rather sad about is the fact that EVERYONE that plays any significant role in the story will eventually die (Even the guy at the start, at the mines, will be killed by trolls later on) - with the exception of the Northrealm king, (And Arkt ofcourse, he's a great guy) .

Every mage, every friend, every ally you develop during the story line gets killed off later.

Well technically Arantheal is alive he has been captured in the soul flayer. I thought Kim was kind of picked off unfairly... Kind of a rushed/cliche end, I mean I loved Nehrim and I don't fault the story at all but I would of preferred a somewhat more elaborate end for Kim, seems like he deserved a little more gusto for his death.

I also still want to know what the purpose of Callisto blowing their cover in Ostian was ? I never understood that. Kim was right about that, unless I'm missing something blatant. Seemed totally out of left field.

[Eolath]

I second the above statement - thanks a load SureAI, this game is WAY better then Oblivion ever will be. (Even with 100+ mods installed, it'll never be better then Nehrim)

The only thing I was rather sad about is the fact that EVERYONE that plays any significant role in the story will eventually die (Even the guy at the start, at the mines, will be killed by trolls later on) - with the exception of the Northrealm king, (And Arkt ofcourse, he's a great guy) .

Every mage, every friend, every ally you develop during the story line gets killed off later.

Well technically Arantheal is alive he has been captured in the soul flayer. I thought Kim was kind of picked off unfairly... Kind of a rushed/cliche end, I mean I loved Nehrim and I don't fault the story at all but I would of preferred a somewhat more elaborate end for Kim, seems like he deserved a little more gusto for his death.

I also still want to know what the purpose of Callisto blowing their cover in Ostian was ? I never understood that. Kim was right about that, unless I'm missing something blatant. Seemed totally out of left field.

[+]

Yep. I kind of agree there, with the Kim part that is, they should have given her/him a little more game time, especially near the end. Kim runs away during the start of chapter 5 or 6, and then we suddenly find out that he/she's kidnapped and killed.

Why? How? Just for the f@ck of it?

The ending is great, but after Ankt says he's retiring it makes you feel a little hollow that everyone's basically gone. Worse, there's some Bodenbruck pretender on the throne now.

PS: What ending choice did you pick? Did you kill the last Light Borne, or did you allow him to merge himself into you?

PPS: Just a little addition to the ending part, I do think the ending as a whole is a little rushed. Along with killing Kim off, they never unlocked the Sanctum again. It's kind of bothering me, since the mage that was channeling this spell is very much dead - shouldn't the Shadow God be able to counter the magic created by some lowly chancellor? Same counts for the castle that you obtain a little earlier, it feels a little empty aswell - no guards, and the rubble outside of it isn't cleaned up yet.

[JoKeR]

[+]

Yep. I kind of agree there, with the Kim part that is, they should have given her/him a little more game time, especially near the end. Kim runs away during the start of chapter 5 or 6, and then we suddenly find out that he/she's kidnapped and killed.

Why? How? Just for the f@ck of it?

The ending is great, but after Ankt says he's retiring it makes you feel a little hollow that everyone's basically gone. Worse, there's some Bodenbruck pretender on the throne now.

PS: What ending choice did you pick? Did you kill the last Light Borne, or did you allow him to merge himself into you?

PPS: Just a little addition to the ending part, I do think the ending as a whole is a little rushed. Along with killing Kim off, they never unlocked the Sanctum again. It's kind of bothering me, since the mage that was channeling this spell is very much dead - shouldn't the Shadow God be able to counter the magic created by some lowly chancellor? Same counts for the castle that you obtain a little earlier, it feels a little empty aswell - no guards, and the rubble outside of it isn't cleaned up yet.

That's what I found rather odd, how did Kim end up at the heart of the world as well? Arantheal himself says you need light-born powers to take the portals which lead to the heart of the world, and by way of that us the hero were allowed to enter because we held the soul flayer and Arantheal with it... So it's definitely disjointed in that aspect as well. As for why we can't overcome some things, it's explained if I read it correctly that by destroying the predisposition and fate we effectively destroyed any kind of god status including shadow god. With fate no longer holding anyone to any kind of role I suppose everyone can be as powerful or weak as they want to be, as everyone is on an equal playing field at the end by very nature of the story. Which is why the end doesn't feel so bad, you are merely a mortal at the end and your fate is your own to do with as you please you aren't inherently more powerful than anyone else. It's kind of a catch-22, by completing the story you only just come to square 1 because by killing fate you reset everything in the image of Nehrim being ruled by its people, meaning you yourself are only a person in Nehrim as well.

[Eolath]

[+]

Yep. I kind of agree there, with the Kim part that is, they should have given her/him a little more game time, especially near the end. Kim runs away during the start of chapter 5 or 6, and then we suddenly find out that he/she's kidnapped and killed.

Why? How? Just for the f@ck of it?

The ending is great, but after Ankt says he's retiring it makes you feel a little hollow that everyone's basically gone. Worse, there's some Bodenbruck pretender on the throne now.

PS: What ending choice did you pick? Did you kill the last Light Borne, or did you allow him to merge himself into you?

PPS: Just a little addition to the ending part, I do think the ending as a whole is a little rushed. Along with killing Kim off, they never unlocked the Sanctum again. It's kind of bothering me, since the mage that was channeling this spell is very much dead - shouldn't the Shadow God be able to counter the magic created by some lowly chancellor? Same counts for the castle that you obtain a little earlier, it feels a little empty aswell - no guards, and the rubble outside of it isn't cleaned up yet.

That's what I found rather odd, how did Kim end up at the heart of the world as well? Arantheal himself says you need light-born powers to take the portals which lead to the heart of the world, and by way of that us the hero were allowed to enter because we held the soul flayer and Arantheal with it... So it's definitely disjointed in that aspect as well. As for why we can't overcome some things, it's explained if I read it correctly that by destroying the predisposition and fate we effectively destroyed any kind of god status including shadow god. With fate no longer holding anyone to any kind of role I suppose everyone can be as powerful or weak as they want to be, as everyone is on an equal playing field at the end by very nature of the story. Which is why the end doesn't feel so bad, you are merely a mortal at the end and your fate is your own to do with as you please you aren't inherently more powerful than anyone else. It's kind of a catch-22, by completing the story you only just come to square 1 because by killing fate you reset everything in the image of Nehrim being ruled by its people, meaning you yourself are only a person in Nehrim as well.

As far as I can read you're still very much immortal. Age and disease have no effect on you, a dead by supernatural cause was predetermined for you - but by killing faith you prefend this. (Something along those lines was in the journal) So in terms of age, the PC can become way older (as old as he/she would like) then the other people. Not back at square 1, then.

Also, this still doesn't explain why you're not able to weave down the force field around the Sanctum.. It's not like the chancellor was all that powerful, especially compared to either Arantheal or the PC.

[Jars]

Every mage, every friend, every ally you develop during the story line gets killed off later.

I thought that might have something to do with either trying to be super dramatic or putting your character into a situation like the last shadow god at the center of the world was in, when you read his diary everyone around him died along the way or something like that
Kinda wish there were more perks for beating the mq though

[Gruppen10]

I also still want to know what the purpose of Callisto blowing their cover in Ostian was ? I never understood that. Kim was right about that, unless I'm missing something blatant. Seemed totally out of left field.

Sorry about late response. I think i have a reason for what happened during that part of the game. When the soldiers showed up out of nowhere. Callisto probably realized that the Temple priest or whatever excuse can only work so many times and in the end they were meeting in a forbidden area at night and chances are, if the cover story worked again, the soldiers would report back to their superior and then the superior probably has to give reports to the Temple. I'd also take a guess that brutal religious dictatorships have a record of where their Priests come and go. The temple in turn would investigate the matter and once they realize we're imposters...BAM cover blown anyways. I believe Callisto made the right choice. It was too much of a risk to keep the soldiers alive at that point.

Just my two cents.

[arvisrend]

Callisto is also a very untrustful person. He may have believed that Nicci betrayed him.

[Zaose]

Totally agree, amazing. I couldn't stop playing the main quest... late nights and ignoring the world. Good stuff!

I also know what you guys mean about the "hollow" feeling afterwards.... I ran to all the main towns and old places to see old friends and bask in my victory. Realizing I have NO old friends other than the king and Arkt - which, really, is awesome because Arkt is the only person on the world who knows what went down. So we can go share old times over some fine brews. Gives you the connection to the victory, while leaving you pretty "unknown" to the common man. Reading the fallen shadow god's journal and seeing he lost everyone, and then of course Saranatha saying she did purposeful kill all my friends (as she did his too, no doubt) made my victory all the more important. Awesome stuff.

Seeing the pretender on the throne was a bittersweet moment, and the realization that I'm just a normal dude now. It was cool. Re-reading the journals and notes and that AWESOME book Arkt gives you really helped me seal the gaps and find a comfort for my character after it was all and done. He's immortal, but essentially the same as everyone else. I have a place of honor with the new king, but am free to just go out and see the world now. Like Arkt, who is just going to be a farmer and fish hehe, I can just "be". Going through the side quests now, and all the other dungeons and areas will feel appropriate, unlike after Oblivion's main quest, as mentioned above. So true. I really like how they ended this thing! Kudos to the devs, who have made something better than almost anything else out there. Awesome.

I think the only disappointments of the ending I had were the rushed Kim ending, as mentioned. Also Arkt said he had her safe... so that was strange.
Also the un-sealed Sanctum is a disappointment to me. I had plans of setting up my mage tower there and taking it over. The Order had that place for a thousand years and was very important in the final victory of the free peoples of Nehrim. As for WHY it's still sealed, also, doesn't seem to mesh with the story. So hopefully this can be easily patched to fix hint hint.

Thanks Devs... seriously. You should put a paypal donation button up on your site. I'd click it.

[Lady Dracon]

I personally killed Tyr. I kind of hate how it counted as a murder (I was playing a good character at the time), but it felt justified. Even if he forfeits his Lightborn powers, he'll still be alive, and I would imagine he would still have some power as a mage plus "God-like" status amoungst the people. Based on what he said about always needing a leader and how the Lightborn actually gave the people guidance, I felt it was too risky to keep him alive. Bittersweet as the comment might be, my character didn't know enough about him to be reassured that he wouldn't use his former "Lightborn/God" status as a means to overthrow/rule the people.

[Eolath]

I personally killed Tyr. I kind of hate how it counted as a murder (I was playing a good character at the time), but it felt justified. Even if he forfeits his Lightborn powers, he'll still be alive, and I would imagine he would still have some power as a mage plus "God-like" status amoungst the people. Based on what he said about always needing a leader and how the Lightborn actually gave the people guidance, I felt it was too risky to keep him alive. Bittersweet as the comment might be, my character didn't know enough about him to be reassured that he wouldn't use his former "Lightborn/God" status as a means to overthrow/rule the people.

I killed him aswell, got what he deserved imho. His "People always need a higher power" was the thing we were trying to remove from Nehrim, having the need to require a "higher power" to guide you wasn't right. That's one of the reasons we killed fate, that's the reason Arantheal started his quest. That was the ideal of the Order.

Removing fate, but still having Tyr dance around wouldn't completely remove all the "higher power" power trips from Nehrim.

[Helol]

I dissagree completely . I let him live. and took half the power. People need a higher spirit to believe is watching over them and keeping them secure. Tyr was that . and in my honest opinion did not deserve to be killed.

Think about it. if the wierdo on the erothin throne goes like barateon did. then who would be there to help you. Arkt- Hes retired. Narazul-Dead. Yourself- you could give it a great fighting chance . but man always prevails . to Tyr would be there to side with you since you kept him alive.

Dont think that this new person on the throne will be a good one.. he looks shifty and posh to me.

then again. we always have the Northrealm king .. he will always be with us. even if his kingdom has been smashed up in a war .

what about the dwarves.. oh.. wait.. yeah they took of with fat erwin.. didnt even send me a postcard.. sheesh!

anyone else i missed?

[Eolath]

I dissagree completely . I let him live. and took half the power. People need a higher spirit to believe is watching over them and keeping them secure. Tyr was that . and in my honest opinion did not deserve to be killed.

Think about it. if the wierdo on the erothin throne goes like barateon did. then who would be there to help you. Arkt- Hes retired. Narazul-Dead. Yourself- you could give it a great fighting chance . but man always prevails . to Tyr would be there to side with you since you kept him alive.

Dont think that this new person on the throne will be a good one.. he looks shifty and posh to me.

then again. we always have the Northrealm king .. he will always be with us. even if his kingdom has been smashed up in a war .

what about the dwarves.. oh.. wait.. yeah they took of with fat erwin.. didnt even send me a postcard.. sheesh!

anyone else i missed?

He's weak, he got on the throne a few days ago. (When you finish the main quest) he has no power whatsoever, you could walk in and stab him if you'd feel like it.
I doubt even half of the middlerealm armies know who their current leader is (Arantheal, The chancellor, Bodenbruck)

That, and if the Bodenbruck guy turns out to be a Tyrant, the people can choose to remove him. Whilst the chancellor and the Lightborne were far to strong to strike down by a rebellion.

It has always been like this throughout human history (in the real world :p) and we turned out quite alright, didn't we? If a Tyrant angers enough of the populace he will fall sooner or later.

[Lady Dracon]

I don't trust the Boddenbruuk guy either. If he's anything like his relative in Stonefield Castle, then I'll be ripping my hair out for the next few decades. I don't see the guy being a mage, but then again...all wizards wear monicles! (Doubt anyone's going to get that reference) In any case, I agree with the above poster. Nehrim controls it's own destiny now, one way or another. If a tyrant rises up, there will most likely be a rebellion. Plus, who knows how it will go now without fate intervening? An interesting way to end the game, in my opinion.

As for the account of Tyr, I don't see him directly intervening in Nehrim's affairs unless it benefitted him somehow or felt that he or his subjects were threatened by the tyrant (He seems to regard his followers greatly judging by some of the notes he leaves the Seraphim).I Haven't played through Myar Aranath or Arktwend yet(I think he had a major role in Arktwend), so I'm most likely completely wrong about this, but I'm assuming he has a country/people that he rules over still (Since the majority of Lightborne are destined leaders/Rule over countries ). So I imagine he would be caught up in his own country's or people's affairs before anything else. Just my theory on the matter.

[Ickairiel]

I know why it was locked up though!

Do you want to know why?

Of course, you do!

Well, I found this out actually at Fog Tower Island when I wanted to check and see if the Thorium Nuggets respawned. Then, I saw the rocks blocking the entrance. Then, I used TCL and entered it put me back at Chapter: 3!

So, the reason is because it was where a change in Chapters happened instantly.

[elderdrake]

Just finished the game myself. I both loved and hated the ending at the same time. My reasons:

Loved it because:

[+]

It had a Freudian way of making you think about many important questions that you could juxtapose to ones we face ourselves. lol, minus the fantasy setting part.

Hated it because:

[+]

As was said in earlier post, why kill EVERYONE? Killing Kim made absolutely no sense at all and made me just say "wow, guess that was supposed to be a shock factor...lame". Your choices in the game (say with dealing with Tyr, or maybe redeeming the two lovers while in the sword, etc) should have given you a chance to save her or not have her sacrificed. The way it was done made no sense, was arbitrary, made me feel as though I had no control over the game, and seemed like I said to be a shallow way to shock you in the end. The argument that it was 'Destiny' for her to die, that falls hard considering you destroyed the book of fate and killed destiny. That said, it was my only gripe.

I have to say that this mod is more akin to a piece of art. Although I did not like one part, you can say that of anything. It is impossible to make something that everyone loves 100%. All I know is I am grateful to the SureAI team for giving us this gem to play. Thank you.

[TheHawk]

Enjoyed the game so much. Playing it again
It is atmospheric. It has a beautifully sculpted world, from the cities to the landscapes. Interesting and enjoyable sidequests.
Only gripe I have is the inclusion of some oblivion monsters.I found Sureai's own i.e spiders, bone flayers more fitting to the game.
The game, inbetween the fantasy and role playing made me think on many of the points and issues allready voiced.
Did not trust a single character throughout (apart from Kim, who relly annoyed me at times), they all had there own agenda.
Kill Tyr or let him live? God or no God?
Without something to believe in (no god), the masses create there own. Sex, drugs, pop stars, celebrities are now all gods to small groups of individuals . When a Tyrant gains power, he stays in power till another Tyrant or Tyrannical state remove him.
With a God. All holy works contain messages on morallity to live our lives by. Criminal systems are built on these books. But the masses do not read these books usually themseves. They have teachers (priests etc) to tell them what it means. Unfortunateley (my opinion) a lot of these are corrupt and immoral/amoral and teach what they believe and not what is meant. Religion is used to control the masses and would be a great thing if the leaders of these religions were moral and uncorruptable themselves.
The game made me think of a quote by Nietzsche, "Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I.

[Eolath]

Enjoyed the game so much. Playing it again
It is atmospheric. It has a beautifully sculpted world, from the cities to the landscapes. Interesting and enjoyable sidequests.
Only gripe I have is the inclusion of some oblivion monsters.I found Sureai's own i.e spiders, bone flayers more fitting to the game.
The game, inbetween the fantasy and role playing made me think on many of the points and issues allready voiced.
Did not trust a single character throughout (apart from Kim, who relly annoyed me at times), they all had there own agenda.
Kill Tyr or let him live? God or no God?
Without something to believe in (no god), the masses create there own. Sex, drugs, pop stars, celebrities are now all gods to small groups of individuals . When a Tyrant gains power, he stays in power till another Tyrant or Tyrannical state remove him.
With a God. All holy works contain messages on morallity to live our lives by. Criminal systems are built on these books. But the masses do not read these books usually themseves. They have teachers (priests etc) to tell them what it means. Unfortunateley (my opinion) a lot of these are corrupt and immoral/amoral and teach what they believe and not what is meant. Religion is used to control the masses and would be a great thing if the leaders of these religions were moral and uncorruptable themselves.
The game made me think of a quote by Nietzsche, "Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I.

I partially agree with you there. Although the removal of a Tyrant does not always result in another tyrannical state rising. In which way do you think the majority of the world turned into a democracy? We all used to be under the rule of an absolute monarch. (Excluding the Americas - but even there the rich used to have a load more power.)

[TheHawk]

Thank you for agreeing partially, although maybe I do not fully explain myself correctly sometimes i.e my definition of a "tyranical state".
Firstly I am an atheist and "politically agnostic", meaning I respect all opinions and never try to preach (I hope).
A Tyranical state can be a democracy if countries or peoples view the leader/party (wrongly or rightly) of that democracy as tyranical i.e. Tony Blair was viewed by many to be such.
A tyrant is a single leader who rules the country tyranically.
A tyranical state is one that (dictionary definitions here) : "arbitrary, unreasonable, or despotic behaviour or use of authority" or/and "Absolute power, especially when exercised unjustly or cruelly".

Just my opinion.

p.s Thanks for making me have to think. Its been a long time.