SureAI Forums covering SureAI game titles.

[greenlight]

To me there is a big difference between fast-travel and transportation as in Morrowind. Simple fast travel as in Oblivion or Skyrim is really immersion breaking, because it's just "click at the location and be there" - you aren't really travelling. On the other hand, the silt striders in Morrowind were an actual transportation method; you walk up to the platform, choose your destination and pay for it. The transport by a wagon in Skyrim was similar.
Of course no one forces a player to use fast travel, but if the option is available, people will use it. In order to get the players to travel through the hand-crafted world, you have to force them somehow

[badgesareus]

do you think that there is any use for horses now in Skyrim? Except that "they are there"

Personally, I never rode horses in Oblivion or Skyrim, and in Nehrim only when required to by the game. Well, except for the nightmare you get in Skyrim from the Dark Brotherhood, I didn't ride it but it was fun watching it kill a dragon or wiping out an entire fort. I agree there isn't any use for them as is, and the controls are awkward. If you have played Sacred 2, you know how mounts can be made interesting and useful, as by selecting a certain mount one could boost certain abilities at the expense of others, and the movement controls were the same as for the player.

Here is a suggestion for travel in Enderal. First, have some type of paid-for transportation such as silt striders or the Skyrim wagon. Second,
instead of having the teleport system as used in Nehrim, have only the mark/recall spells, but allow multiple marks, perhaps 5 or so. That way, a player could have some degree of fast travel but would have to take decisions where to use them most effectively. Third (maybe) have mounts that are easy to control (like using the basic WASD & mouse keys) and that affect the rider's abilities or stats in some way. In fact, perhaps they could have their own skill tree and you could take them to trainers to improve their abilities to fight or travel more quickly. You might even be able to use blacksmith skills for them -- Daedric horseshoes? -- or use alchemy to make them special potions.

In order to get the players to travel through the hand-crafted world, you have to force them somehow

I disagree. For me, the whole point of a wide-open RPG is for players to go where they want, do what they want, and not be forced into anything, unless they choose to. I think those who choose to play Enderal will certainly want to travel through the hand-crafted world. My point is that, after a while you have discovered all there is to discover along certain paths, and traveling them becomes a chore. Plants, animals, bandits, etc. may be respawned, how about spawning structures, caves, etc. along the paths/roads, so that you would have meaningful new encounters along a previously traveled road. Hey, there is a cave, or a bandit camp, or an inn that wasn't there last time through! Wow, that recent thunderstorm caused a mudslide that uncovered an unknown dungeon!

[Nicolas Samuel]

Here is a suggestion for travel in Enderal. First, have some type of paid-for transportation such as silt striders or the Skyrim wagon. Second,
instead of having the teleport system as used in Nehrim, have only the mark/recall spells, but allow multiple marks, perhaps 5 or so. That way, a player could have some degree of fast travel but would have to take decisions where to use them most effectively.

That's basically what we are planning. We are not yet sure about how the mark/recall-spells but there'll most likely be a paid-for transportation. The thing with mark/recall-spells is that they usually make the paid-for travel obsolete once obtained. What do you think about a recall-spell that teleports the player back to a waypoint from where he can teleport himself to waypoints throughout the country, especially the dangerous area where no "silt striders" can go. (We'll have something way more exciting. )

[mandos]

I disagree. For me, the whole point of a wide-open RPG is for players to go where they want, do what they want, and not be forced into anything, unless they choose to.

Well i can agree with most of your post, however i think you are missing the point. Fast Travel, as it stands now is a huge cut from immersion. Why? Because it makes key elements of an exploration obsolete.

I can still remember my first playthrough of Morrowind. I was just on very long hiking trip through Sheogorath Region, when i found myself on the almost northernmost tip of the isles with broken sword, armor, no almsivi, no divine intervention, no recall, no nothing, and to top it all quite low level.
I remember asking myself "how the hell am i going to get back to the civilization"? First i had to swam through the sea filled with nasty creatures, which i had no way of fighting back, then find the main isle, sneak past couple daedric ruins, run from winged twilight, followed by cliffracers and other nasty critters, finally reaching the safety of the harbor(dont remember name), and get back to balmora to fix my stuff. At the time no internet, no console use(didnt know how), and i remember this still today as a highpoint of my gaming times.
Now nothing like this can happen, because the fast travel doesnt allow it. It alleviates the player of decision, because it doesnt impose any cost on making a mistake. RPG is not totally about freedom, is also about the cost which it introduces for lenient approach to it. Its not about rush, its about those little (almost unnoticable) things that you can enjoy if you are in game for 10 minutes or 100 hours.
Without possibility of failure the freedom is obsolete. In Oblivion or Skyrim (or any new bethesda releases for that matter) if you find yourself outmatched you can just teleport from anywhere back to the city, resupply, and teleport back...

[badgesareus]

It alleviates the player of decision, because it doesnt impose any cost on making a mistake....Without possibility of failure the freedom is obsolete.

I agree with you in theory, but if you take your argument to the ultimate extent, one should only play "hard-core"; that is, when you die, you stay dead, your saves are wiped out and you must begin a new game. One could say that there is a spectrum of immersion from 0% to 100%, and let us say for the sake of argument that 100% = "hard-core" as stated above. The question is, where on the spectrum do the game developers draw the line, requiring some minimum degree of immersion? It has been said of many RPGs over the past few years that they have been "dumbed-down"; i.e., the minimum immersion point has been set rather low. One of the appeals of Nehrim, and presumably Enderal, is that they are not "dumbed-down." Of course, since they are not being sold commercially, they do not have to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and those people who played and enjoyed Nehrim are self-selecting for an RPG that is not "dumbed-down."

So, how do the game developers decide on a certain minimum level of immersion? There are trade-offs for increased immersion; the time and cost of development, the file size, and the playing time. For example, in Nehrim, some people objected to the red/green quest markers. However, without the quest markers, one might have more immersion in the game but more clues would have to be provided to locate the quests, requiring more development, and especially, much more of a translation challenge. So in the instance of quest markers, the developers chose practicality over greater immersion. (perhaps Enderal will be different.) So, in terms of travel/transportation options, you would like to force a high level of immersion, whereas I would urge the developers to set a lower level (i.e., some fast travel/transport) for those who don't need the same level of immersion that you do.

The thing with mark/recall-spells is that they usually make the paid-for travel obsolete once obtained. What do you think about a recall-spell that teleports the player back to a waypoint from where he can teleport himself to waypoints throughout the country, especially the dangerous area where no "silt striders" can go.

Well, using Nehrim as an example, in addition to the specific location spell, one needed to have a teleport stone which was consumed. Early in the game, when doing initial exploration, one had few of them, so they had to be used sparingly, with thought. Later, when much travel was over already known routes, more teleport stones had been accumulated, and they could be used more freely. Waypoints? I don't have any opinion.

(We'll have something way more exciting.)

Dragon taxis? A newly discovered dwarven/star people underground railway system? Giant "Dune" worms? Ahah, dwarven Segways!

[DJplumo]

Something that maybe hasn't been mentioned alot:

If you have played the Morrowind expansion: Bloodmoon you'll probably remember the quest chain where you helped developing a plot of land into a 'thriving' mining colony...
This is something I miss alot! http://uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:East_Emp ... any_Quests

[Nicolas Samuel]

Yep, a lot of people suggested that! I hope we can find time to implement it!

[Hazzmat]

Latiro, are you going to make use of the extra content Bethesda has made available for your mod? ( Horse combat for cavalry units and crossbows are a nice addition ). And another question: are you going to diversify the amount of weapon types in Enderal? By that I mean you could for instance add spears and other long range weapons.

[Nicolas Samuel]

We probably will include mounted combat, since it comes with the latest version of Skyrim.

As for the assets that came with Dawnguard - We cannot use them, even though we'd love to. It's too much of a constraint, we don't want to force players to buy Dawnguard in order to play Enderal. We'll have some nice new features on our own, so we hope that'll be enough.

Greetings,

Latiro

[NamelessHero]

Are you sure you want to do that? Dawnguard has a LOT of resources that would fit in very nicely in Enderal(especially Volkihar). Why not make a poll instead? If the majority of the people would like you to use the assets from DLCs then why not?Just sayin'.