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Topic title - Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions)

https://forum.sureai.net/viewtopic.php?t=3286

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Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Lady Dracon
Posted: 23.09.2010 23:15
I've been thinking about making a few modifications for Nehrim, but I have a question:

In the construction set, I keep getting warning windows about certain events. (I believe one was ACTII. I am only loading Nehrim.esm and NehrimData.esp, by the way.) My solution is usally clicking "Yes to All", but I would like to know if any event scripts or otherwise will be messed up in the new mod due to these warnings.

In short: Are these warnings normal, or is there something I'm missing to get them to load up normally?
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Chasm
Posted: 23.09.2010 23:23
Do not load NehrimData.esp when modding, ever.

Really. No idea why this information is not in a sticky here in the EN section, but it still is true.
Other than that, yes there are tons of errors. That's normal.
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Lady Dracon
Posted: 23.09.2010 23:35
Chasm wrote:
Do not load NehrimData.esp when modding, ever.

Really. No idea why this information is not in a sticky here in the EN section, but it still is true.
Other than that, yes there are tons of errors. That's normal.
Thank you so much for the quick response and the warning. Now I can mod without being paranoid. :D
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Eolath
Posted: 24.09.2010 07:43
I get no errors at all, none.. should I be paranoid about this? :shock:
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Pendraia
Posted: 26.09.2010 04:41
Chasm wrote:
Do not load NehrimData.esp when modding, ever.
Hi, can you explain why this is a problem? I have been playing around in the CS creating an Alchemy Garden at Arcane Sanctum and I'm wondering if I need to restart from scratch? Is there a way to clean the mod without starting again?

Cheers

Pen
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Kilzwerg
Posted: 26.09.2010 10:23
@Eolath: No, you should be lucky about that ;)
@Pendraia: I don´t know, sorry. Maybe a member of the team can tell you the answer.
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Pendraia
Posted: 26.09.2010 11:56
Kilzwerg wrote:
@Pendraia: I don´t know, sorry. Maybe a member of the team can tell you the answer.
Don't worry, I got impatient :roll: :wink: and started again, I wanted to keep going with it. I would like to understand why it shouldn't be used though for future reference.

cheers

Pen
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Eolath
Posted: 26.09.2010 21:16
No idea either, if there's an issue it must be a time bomb or something, because I made several adjustments with the .esp enabled, and I don't have any problems.. well, the occasional crash.. but I always have that.
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Pendraia
Posted: 26.09.2010 22:15
Eolath wrote:
No idea either, if there's an issue it must be a time bomb or something, because I made several adjustments with the .esp enabled, and I don't have any problems.. well, the occasional crash.. but I always have that.
Over at Canadian Ice's Forum someone suggested it might be because if they plan on updating the data esp at a future time your mod would stop working, this made sense to me but I'm not sure if it is their reasoning.

cheers

Pen
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Chasm
Posted: 26.09.2010 23:00
Maybe, without checking the backgrounds: One of the effects of loading NehrimData.esp is that you will get a seriously dirty mod.
Since the file is not necessary for modding - dont load it. ;)
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Eolath
Posted: 28.09.2010 07:53
Pendraia wrote:
Eolath wrote:
No idea either, if there's an issue it must be a time bomb or something, because I made several adjustments with the .esp enabled, and I don't have any problems.. well, the occasional crash.. but I always have that.
Over at Canadian Ice's Forum someone suggested it might be because if they plan on updating the data esp at a future time your mod would stop working, this made sense to me but I'm not sure if it is their reasoning.

cheers

Pen
Loading ESPs is never an actual problem. ESPs wont be loaded into your mod. As long as they're not active, if they update the ESM and change the name it might be problematic, but for an ESP? Doubt it.

How do you think compatibility mods are made? Mods that change the terrain between two certain mods to make it possible to activate them both at the same time without terrain clipping.

If the terrain is updated, stuff might bug out in your mod - but that wouldn't be any different whether you have the ESP loaded or not.

Sounds like a widespread rumor to me, but if someone from the Nehrim team could confirm or deny this, then it'd be great. :)

PS: problems you describe happen when you use stuff from the ESP or ESM and they get changed or removed, resulting in them being unusable in your mod aswell. So, always use your own versions of objects if you want to be completely save/clean.
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Pendraia
Posted: 28.09.2010 08:36
Hi Eolath, thanks for the info. :) As a digital immigrant I often find some of the finer details hard to fully understand. I appreciate your explaining...
I also hope that someone from the team could explain the reasoning for not having it active.
So, always use your own versions of objects if you want to be completely save/clean.
I knew that if I was changing an item I should create my own version rather than change the standard item, are you suggesting here that any item you use in a mod should be your own version? Or do you mean the same as above?

Thanks

Pen
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Eolath
Posted: 28.09.2010 17:04
Pendraia wrote:
Hi Eolath, thanks for the info. :) As a digital immigrant I often find some of the finer details hard to fully understand. I appreciate your explaining...
I also hope that someone from the team could explain the reasoning for not having it active.
So, always use your own versions of objects if you want to be completely save/clean.
I knew that if I was changing an item I should create my own version rather than change the standard item, are you suggesting here that any item you use in a mod should be your own version? Or do you mean the same as above?

Thanks

Pen

With the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, using any item/object from the Nehrim ESM could potentially break your mod. (This is very much a gray area. In vanilla oblivion this wouldn't be a problem, because Bethesda basically stopped updating the Oblivion.esm. But SureAI is still updating Nehrim.esm) But creating your own version for everything you intend to use takes far too much space. Making your mod quite large in size, whilst the work you've done is minimal.

Let's just assume that SureAI wont change objects, like tables. Or remove basic items, like a simple shortsword. So we wont have to create seperate versions for that. :)

This is more or less a reponse to Chasm's question "One of the effects of loading NehrimData.esp is that you will get a seriously dirty mod" - this would only happen if you use an element from the NehrimData.esp, as far as I know, anyway. It shouldn't suddenly "corrupt" the entire mod if you use an esp from another mod in it. Dirty mods happen when you try to edit a vanilla weapon/armour (Like adding stats to a silver shortsword without creating a duplicate) or a vanilla script, change vanilla quests etc without intending to do so.

Anyways, still hope one of the tech can clear this question up once and for all. :-P
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Chasm
Posted: 28.09.2010 19:30
I've said this because a modder reported in the german section that his 2500kB mod turned -by not loading NehrimData.esp in the CS- into a 10kB mod.

Anyway(tm):

The SureAI Team officially warns against loading NehrimData.esp while modding.
Unfortunatly a similar sticky is still missing in the english section.
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Eolath
Posted: 28.09.2010 21:33
Great! Thanks for the info.

It's all still a little vague, but atleast we know now. :)
Re: Question About Modding Nehrim (Not relating to conversions) - by Pendraia
Posted: 28.09.2010 22:46
Eolath wrote:
Dirty mods happen when you try to edit a vanilla weapon/armour (Like adding stats to a silver shortsword without creating a duplicate) or a vanilla script, change vanilla quests etc without intending to do so.
Thanks, this part is what I understood needed to be done and I always create my own items for things like containers etc., that I change things on. Now I just have to work out how to add collision to items I've created from scratch and I might actually finish this project.

Thanks Chasm for the info from the German section...

cheers

Pen
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