SureAI

So I have just finished my first run of Enderal yesterday night, and me oh my is it depressing but in a very good way! I am actually finding it difficult to move on because I've always had optimistic expectations of the ending; I was hoping at least there would be a game to play after the end game, but turns out there was not! Anyway, there are so many mysteries/unanswered questions that I'm just trying to get my head around and it has really given me a headache.

Here are some of my deductions from the first playthrough:

What is the Aged Man?

The Aged Man is a former Prophet and a Fleshless One who predates the Black Guardian and somehow escaped the Cleansing through means different from the ‘Brave New World’ Ending. Like the Player in this ending, he does escape with his lover however she wasn’t immortal. He thought he could change the fate of humanity and end the Cycle but failed, so now he has witnessed countless Cycles. This is enough to leave anyone disillusioned with humanity.


What is the Veiled Woman?

The Veiled Woman is neither a Fleshless One nor a High One. Her ability to interact with and affect the world proves she isn’t a High One and her abilities are outside the scope of any Fleshless One. There is a slim chance that she’s a Fleshless One, but this seems very unlikely, given her attitude towards the Cycle and the High Ones. She has displayed powers far greater than the High Ones and Fleshless Ones. She also predates the Black Guardian and very likely the Aged Man.

The Black Guardian himself even wonders why she didn’t deliver the Player to him much earlier in the story. This is because it would have been too easy since it would not have left anything up to chance. After all, she is likely a god-like entity embodying the aspects of luck and probability. The High Ones have forever had the odds stacked in their favour, so this Cycle she decides to intervene to give humanity a fighting chance. I would say the Veiled Woman’s motives are to finally end The Cycle since the High Ones are all about control and leave nothing to chance, they unknowingly oppose her.


Jespar's status as a being

Jespar is NOT a Fleshless One and therefore a mortal. When he gets revived by the Veiled Woman, his body is still his own, unlike the Protagonist. Furthermore, at the end game, he's affected by the Cleansing just like every other human character.


What about Calia?

Calia/Maya is NOT a Fleshless one, since like Jespar, she still possesses her original body and is affected by the Cleansing however with a Black Soul. Whether this makes her immortal is disputable as while the Veiled Woman did say she was special, Calia does grow up from being a young girl to a woman. This implies she does age but whether this aging stops past a certain point is up for interpretation. Although I am going to assume she also has the potential to become immortal since Ryneus with the Black Stone didn't seem to age either.


What is the Protagonist exactly?

The Player character is a standard Fleshless One/Prophet and his interactions with the Veiled Woman is what makes him special. The Veiled Woman’s interference in the Cycle is what brought about this. When we meet with her later in the game, she tells us we were meant to die later rather than sooner. Weren’t for her intervention, we were supposed to arrive at the docks with Sirius (a few days later?) then killed thereafter during our escape.

From this, we know there’s some window of time between the player’s predestined death and his engineered death by the Veiled Woman. For some reason, The Veiled Woman wanted our death to be brought forth sooner. From this, it can be deducted that the player was NEVER meant to become the Prophet.

Originally, someone else in the world was destined to be the Prophet. This somebody was a person similar to you, with all the vices and shortcomings, but who was supposed to die BEFORE you. However, this person would haven’t done anything different from their predecessors, and gone on to repeat these failures and the Cycle. The Player is unique from all other Prophets because the Veiled Woman saw him as the most ‘probable’ candidate to end The Cycle. In other words, The Veiled Woman CHOOSES YOU to become the Prophet.

I agree with you regarding the Aged Man, it is the option that seems to fit better, which is why I sorta turned down the Black Guardian's idea of starting anew (that had the idea of drastically changing mankind... yeah... nothing can go wrong with that sort of hubris. Not to mention there is the tiny, almost insignificant issue of the Metal Dragon being active in the Starling city)

The Veiled woman.... we just don't know enough, but the question is how it ties to the protagonist. and here I have a different idea. we know "Daddy" had issues, beat on his wife due to her infidelity of course it is never clear if that unfaithful child IS the MC or if the unfaithfulness is in "Daddy's" mind.
But at the end of the beacon ending we see four graves.

What if the MC died then? the veiled lady has some power over life and death, what if she loaded the deck? note the dreams were a thing before the MC's death, so....

Alternatively, I wondered if we used the MC as numinos, a fleshless one is a direct product of the High ones, and a beacon firing on that target would either target the high ones themselves OR the fleshless.

Additionally, I started having second thoughts on the beacon when the black stones surfaced, all of them affected their holders negatively, yes it could be though the influence of the High ones, but Calia Shadow form... it felt very much like trying to harness the power of evil for good (and about as smart, I guess) shame I couldn't say Or do anything about it

I thing that the Fleshless One thing is partially bullshit from the Black Guardian to make the character feel empty and agree with his "escape to the starship to become a god and turn me off" plan. After hesitating so much, I accepted his suggestion, but he screwed up and I sacrificed myself to stop the cleansing.

Nonetheless, there is a possibility that the immortality by aging is true because he tried to steal the main character's body to escape to the starcity and become a god, thus lying about several stuff such as Calia's death.

We have a "Veiled Woman" who saved us from getting executed by an angry dude who lost his promotion and resurrected our deceased friend to "pay a debt" for the other friend who got killed... She claims we're what we are thanks to her intervention in the ship, so what's the point of the Veiled Woman saving the main character's ass if we would end up dying anyway?

By the other hand, there is "the Black Guardian" who is nothing more than a mortal who trapped himself into an unfinished giant "megazord" for thousands of years to escape the cleansing. He lied about our dreams being made by the High-Ones because we had them before the game even started, he lied about Calia being dead, he lied about us being perfect gods unlike the Ligh-Born maggots, he lied about the deactivation button and might have lied about other stuff such as the Main-Character being an empty body... He attempted to steal our body and trap us for thousand of years into a giant robots, then attempted to kill us after Calia saved our asses.

Either this is a huge plothole on the story or the Black Guardian is full of shit, I strongly believe in the latter because I'd rather trust someone who resurrected a friend of mine than someone who attempted to steal my body and trap me into a giant robot.

I doubt that.Apart from the Black Guardian,numerous characters call you fleshless.Mage Firsepark in the Living Temple when he had the vision that made him mad.Possessed people you meet.("what is this?You have no flesh!You...monster"!).The Aged man implies you are an immortal being.You find your own drowned corpse in a cave.So the Black Guardian does not lie here.

As far as Jespar/Calia being Fleshless or otherwise immortal, I think that their reaction during the Cleansing isn't actually that important. While the surviving companion does say that they are affected more than the Prophet, we can see the other companion below the Beacon and their status is equal to everyone else their, including Coarek (who may or may not be Fleshless) and more importantly, equal to Tealor, who is a Fleshless. Also, it might have just been a graphical bug, but my PC had some sort of burning overlay over the model in 3rd person view as well, so the Cleansing probably affects the Prophet as well.

As for why the Veiled Woman would save the Prophet only for them to die immediately - exactly because of that. If we are to believe her little story, the Prophet would die anyway soon enough, but possibly without becoming the Prophet. It is the whole situation that allows the High Ones to duplicate the Prophet's mind - the Prophet witnesses the death of Sirius (it was Sirius, right?) while being bound, unable to do anything once again (the fear of being powerless and letting close ones die is the emotion that drives this particular Prophet) and then dying soon after.

I agree with the immortality term, but the fact that the main character is dead, no.

The Veiled Woman has several odd powers and she implies otherwise, even through the high-ones lied a lot aswell, they states that the only interesting chesspiece in the game is our character, so they were either simply manipulating us by telling that both Arantheal and Coarek weren't emissaries at all or they talked that because unlike other emissaries, we somehow got assisted a lot by the Veiled Woman.

Also, the temple was clearly trying to confuse both player and Jespar with those dead bodies, there is no way that both bodies would travel from the red sea to that temple and only our friend's body would've started to rot (green skin).

@Makesin it makes sense, but IMO it's a 50/50 situation, but I don't think that the veiled woman would've interfered in the ship if we would end up dying and cloned by the high-ones anyway. I'd rather trust her than a crazy wannabe god who tried to steal my body.

i suppose one of the loading screens does warn us that most people are telling you their version of the truth, if they're not outright lying to you.

---edit
maybe we should ask the writers just how much we're being lied too throughout the main quest, especially near the end?

That however goes both ways. She could have easier interfered at the later point when the main character was supposed to die and save them there. So from that I'd imply that the important part is not that the Veiled Woman interferes, but when she interferes. And the explanation that the main character needs to die while powerlessly witnessing the death of their friend (i.e. something that already haunts them in dreams) is I think the most likely.

We can of course talk about who lies and when they lie and how much they lie, but in this case, what happens actually supports Black Guardian's claims. The MC founds themselves in the moment of unfulfilled desire and fear, which becomes their main (if not sole) motivator afterwards, and they gain supernatural powers in the same moment as well. We could try to deduce that the powers actually come from the Veiled Woman, but for me that would go against Occam's Razor.

Oh, and regarding the two dead bodies, I haven't thought about it much before, but couldn't it just be an engine limitation (and a partial mistake by the developers)? Because Sirius' dead body is obviously a unique model, not just an overlay added to the previous character model, something they obviously couldn't replicate with a body (and face, more importantly) created by the player in-game.

I felt myself toyed all along while thinking I was doing different than the other prophets during the main-campaign before the MC fainted and Arantheal went to commit an hero. This game is a lie xD

Hey guys, I would like to clear a few things up.

The Veiled Woman as far as I can tell CANNOT create Fleshless Ones and so far, she has NEVER displayed the ability to do so. When she resurrected Jespar, he maintained his original, human body and simply got back up, otherwise if he were a Fleshless One, this would have created a duplicate body with his human body remaining there dead.

As with the case of the Protagonist, it was still the High Ones who created you which explains the later encounter with your real, human body, albeit it's a corpse by then. The Veiled Woman simply brought your death forth to an earlier date so the High Ones would select you as their Prophet rather than perhaps someone else had you died later.

As for the effects of the Cleansing on non-humans like the Protagonist and Tealor, by the time I got to the Beacon, Tealor was already dead. We do not know how he died or how he would have reacted to the Cleansing, so we can only judge how the Protagonist, a supposed Fleshless One reacted. It is safe to assume any Fleshless One would have been just as resistant as the Protagonist. Coarek was paralyzed so this would indicate he wasn't a Fleshless One.

Wait, Tealor wasn't dead (in neither of the endings, I think), it's there that he says the "I led them to the light. I, alone."

The reactions to the Cleansing are as follows: Tealor (known Fleshless if the Black Guardian tells the truth) is dying, and is delusional. Coarek (a possible Fleshless, there is some circumstantial evidence) is dying and doesn't react to the Prophet. The abandoned companion (possibly Fleshless or otherwise immortal, again some circumstantial evidence) is also dying and doesn't react, the reactions of all the sodliers who we can presume are not immortal or supernatural in any way is the same as the reactions of everyone else.

Opposite to that, the reaction of the saved companion is different, they are affected by the Cleansing, but can still do things (as they either get to out of Enderal, or get to the Starling module, both on their own). And the Prophet says that they don't feel much, but I had this graphical overlay over the model in 3rd person like if the Prophet was burning, no idea if other players experienced the same.

So from that I would assume that the main difference between all the characters is whether they were present at the Beacon when it was lit (those are dying, regardless of their Fleshless status), or if they were below ground at the Black Guardian (those are somewhat affected, but still very much alive). So I don't think the Beacon tells us anything about the Fleshless.

perhaps something that happened to the player character and the favored companion in the starling city that made them resistant? so being fleshless has nothing to do with it?

That certainly is a possibility, but then the other companion was in the city as well, even if separated, and I can't think of anything that has happened there that would make the Prophet and the favoured companion Cleansing resistant.

However, I do think that being Fleshless has nothing to do with the Cleansing resistance. The only difference we ever see is that the favoured companion complains about the burning feeling, while the Prophet doesn't, but they're both capable of doing quite a lot of stuff. And on the other hand, Tealor the Fleshless is dying in the very same fashion like all the soldiers around the Beacon.

The light of the Beacon takes time to travel.The MC and his/her chosen companion are deep underground and thus more protected that the ones exposed to the surface.Companion is just more affected than the Prophet because they are not fleshless.

You can talk to the abandoned companion on the Sun Temple and have your heart broken

That's the part I'm not convinced about. I just don't see any qualitative difference between those who are known to be Fleshless (Tealor and Prophet) and those who are not. Tealor, Coarek, abandoned companion and random soldiers are all showing the same symptoms, and the only difference between the Prophet and the favoured companion is that the companion complains of feeling burning, but they're still capable of doing the same things the Prophet does.
I had to miss that. Oh my... Kinda glad I missed that, I don't think I'd be able to take that...

Even the Fleshless can be affected by the Beacon and dissolve.Tealor and the abandoned companion are more resistant (you can tel I guess by the fact that both Tealor and the abandoned companion are still lucid enough to be able to communicative).If Coareck is fleshless then he is the only plot hole I see in this scenario unless he can speak but remains silent because he has nothing to tell you.

i wonder... am i the only one struck by the fact that, of all the stuff that this mod/game tells or shows us, these are the types of mysteries that keep us all up at night?

---edit
i'm only half kidding here, if that.

You all remind me of a bunch of medieval monks arguing about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. The story was written to be intentionally ambiguous to generate continued discussion. I think you are trying to find answers to the unanswerable. The true answer is that the entire SureAI team are "High Ones" just messing with your minds.

Luckily, modern science has provided us with an answer to that ancient problem. It's obviously 42.

And I've always wondered how stories like these are actually written. Whether the author knows everything and is simply making fun of the audience, or if they actually don't know everything either.