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Topic title - Aged man origins? [SPOILERS]

https://sureai.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10581

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Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by VelinquentT

Posted: 26.08.2016 05:39

I skip the Nehrim and have a question: is it possible that an aged man is a prophet of one of the previous cycles? It seems that he, as a flesless, fled to the Star City with his lover,

[+]: just as our protagonist does

, but because of his immortality, dude just had to put her in the lifesupport barrel.

[+]: In theory, the same thing will happen in one of the ending, doesn't it? To me it seems like another cycle.

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by ArsCortica

Posted: 27.08.2016 11:50

I am not sure sure whether or not the Old Man also fled to the Star City like the protagonist does, but consider the following:

[+]: There is a fairly credible theory that all events in the game are not actually real but are just the "end at the light of the tunnel" scenario of the protagonist as s/he drowns after being thrown overboard the ship in the intro. A poster on the German section of the forum has compiled a whole boatload of rather intriguing hints pointing at this, and without wanting to translate the entire post, the basic idea behind is that virtually all characters you meet in the game are reflections of the protagonist as he tries to cope with his past - Calia as the "tainted" child that brought ruin to her family, Jespar as the traitor who left those whom he loved to die and is afraid to take responsibility for everything, Tealor as the protagonist's desperate wish to save his family, etc.

[+]: The whole "Fleshless" thing hence would mean that you are not literally are a meat puppet for the Old Ones, but rather that the entire struggle against the Old Ones is just a metaphor for the protagonist's struggle to find absolution and to take responsibility for his/her actions - or inaction.

[+]: If you follow this train of thought, the Old Men actually is how the protagonist imagines his future self within his death-dream if he continues to run away from his guilt (Star City Ending) rather than to take responsibility for his/her (in)action (Sacrifice Ending).

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by Ampnode

Posted: 30.08.2016 16:41

While it may be the PC's made up world in his head right before he dies while being thrown into the ocean, or that Jespar's, Tealor's, and Calia's behaviours could be coincidental and the world may be real, we can't really tell for sure. What's intriguing is that both scenarios fit perfectly in a way that either one could be true. I guess it's simply the player's contemplation on what they think it may be? Many well written stories tend to do this. Keeping the reader(or player) guessing.

Personally, I feel as though the "end at the light of the tunnel" scenario, as @ArsCortica mentioned, could very well be the more plausible theory. Albeit the theory I don't like, because I find these types of stories heart wrenching, it does seem likely true.

Some things to look at, if the world and events happening are real and that The Aged Man is part of a cycle, are:(Major Spoilers)

[+]: - The Veiled Woman says Calia is a special one. The Aged Man's wife may not have gone through the same thing as Calia did, which we can kind of infer she may be immortal, like we are, because of the Black Stone; hence why The Veiled Woman claims she's special. That makes two immortal beings capable of starting from scratch and making sure humanity doesn't go through its same mistakes. This could be why The Veiled Woman has helped so greatly in this cycle, because it's potentially 'the one' to stop it all. Also, Jespar may be a fleshless one as well because of being revived from death at one point. Either way, and whoever you decide, you're being put with someone who's 'potentially' immortal.
- You can sense that The Aged Man feels some sort of sympathy for the PC. You can feel that he's reluctant to help, but decides to do so anyway because he feels like he owes it to humanity after failing. As though he's been through it before and feels like there's no hope I guess? His notes you can read in his manor indicate that he may have been through it before, which they also indicate he's in contact with a higher power(The Veiled Woman perhaps?).
- The Black Guardian claims he's never seen a prophet from the cycles appear in front of him, so you can infer that The Aged Man was possibly given the choice before The Black Guardian was created. But... we don't know if The Black Guardian knows about The Aged Man or not. Being as The Black Guardian has been around for a time that we apparently can't imagine, it makes The Aged Man part of a cycle theory less likely. But again, The Aged Man may have been a part of a cycle a very long time ago.

A Reddit post with some more interesting thoughts(Spoilers inside): https://reddit.com/r/enderal/comments/5 ... g_spoilers

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by badgesareus

Posted: 31.08.2016 04:08

When you reach Riverville near the start of the game and first talk to the alchemist,Tarhutie Leklerk, she says :
"Horrible bad vibrations, Something peculiar surrounds you. Your aura, it is indigo blue, the color of the dying." Hmmm.

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by Makesin

Posted: 31.08.2016 20:28

One problem I have with the whole "end at the light of the tunnel" hallucination theory is that there are a few events happening in the game which we know are true from Nehrim, yet the player character couldn't know about them.

For starters, there's Constantine Firespark, a mage of Narathzul's Order from Nehrim, who obviously appears in Enderal, thus he's not a character made up by a dying mind. Unless he appeared in Ostian in Nehrim (I honestly don't remember the Southrealm part of Nehrim very well), I doubt a young fugitive from Ostian could know about him.

But more importantly, we have Tealor Arantheal, and not only does the Prophet witness him talk about his imprisonment by Narathzul (again, where would the Prophet gain this information?), but more importantly, he witnesses a scene between Tealor and Irlanda talking about Narathzul being their son. This is again something we know is true from Nehrim, and most definitely something the Prophet couldn't know beforehand. After all, only Tealor, Irlanda (and possibly other gods), Arkt, Narathzul and the Nehrim PC ever knew and I doubt either of them would tell some random refugee from Ostian.

As such, unless the Prophet's mind could create in their mind a scenario which would acidentaly show true information (that is, Prophet's mind made up the fact that Tealor and Irlanda had a son without know it actually is the truth), I'll believe that the story truly happened.

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by Casper

Posted: 31.08.2016 21:03

Makesin wrote:
One problem I have with the whole "end at the light of the tunnel" hallucination theory is that there are a few events happening in the game which we know are true from Nehrim, yet the player character couldn't know about them.

For starters, there's Constantine Firespark, a mage of Narathzul's Order from Nehrim, who obviously appears in Enderal, thus he's not a character made up by a dying mind. Unless he appeared in Ostian in Nehrim (I honestly don't remember the Southrealm part of Nehrim very well), I doubt a young fugitive from Ostian could know about him.

But more importantly, we have Tealor Arantheal, and not only does the Prophet witness him talk about his imprisonment by Narathzul (again, where would the Prophet gain this information?), but more importantly, he witnesses a scene between Tealor and Irlanda talking about Narathzul being their son. This is again something we know is true from Nehrim, and most definitely something the Prophet couldn't know beforehand. After all, only Tealor, Irlanda (and possibly other gods), Arkt, Narathzul and the Nehrim PC ever knew and I doubt either of them would tell some random refugee from Ostian.

As such, unless the Prophet's mind could create in their mind a scenario which would acidentaly show true information (that is, Prophet's mind made up the fact that Tealor and Irlanda had a son without know it actually is the truth), I'll believe that the story truly happened.

i happen to agree with these points, and was thinking something similar.

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by ArsCortica

Posted: 01.09.2016 10:28

Makesin wrote:
One problem I have with the whole "end at the light of the tunnel" hallucination theory is that there are a few events happening in the game which we know are true from Nehrim, yet the player character couldn't know about them.

For starters, there's Constantine Firespark, a mage of Narathzul's Order from Nehrim, who obviously appears in Enderal, thus he's not a character made up by a dying mind. Unless he appeared in Ostian in Nehrim (I honestly don't remember the Southrealm part of Nehrim very well), I doubt a young fugitive from Ostian could know about him.

But more importantly, we have Tealor Arantheal, and not only does the Prophet witness him talk about his imprisonment by Narathzul (again, where would the Prophet gain this information?), but more importantly, he witnesses a scene between Tealor and Irlanda talking about Narathzul being their son. This is again something we know is true from Nehrim, and most definitely something the Prophet couldn't know beforehand. After all, only Tealor, Irlanda (and possibly other gods), Arkt, Narathzul and the Nehrim PC ever knew and I doubt either of them would tell some random refugee from Ostian.

As such, unless the Prophet's mind could create in their mind a scenario which would acidentaly show true information (that is, Prophet's mind made up the fact that Tealor and Irlanda had a son without know it actually is the truth), I'll believe that the story truly happened.

I see your point, but bear in mind that the "Light at the End of the Tunnel Scenario" does not imply that everything the protagonist seems is completely fictional. The boat ride likely is real, as are the events of Nehrim (otherwise the protagonist's parents would never have been murdered by religious fanatics). With Narathzul's uprising being a highly popular movement, it's quite possible that the protagonist would know Constantine Firespark, who after all was Narathzul's right-hand man of sorts.

That Tealor Arantheal is Narathzul's father likely also would be public knowledge. The knowledge about his imprisonment and the family issues with Irlanda admittedly are a harder nut to crack - if memory serves, Narathzul died before he could have told anyone about his mommy issues, so the only way the protagonist of Enderal could know about this would be if the protagonist from Nehrim spread the news wide and far - which he may have done (to explain Narathzul's death), or not have done (out of personal respect to Narathzul).

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by badgesareus

Posted: 06.09.2016 22:09

(1) In Nehrim, FATE was personified. I think in Enderal, TIME is personified as the Aged Man. He tells us, in part "I'm an observer, a fleshless eye", I observe the cycle, amongst other things. Timelessness is not that much of a feat, you will find that out yourself, soon enough." Also, one interesting item, in his study on the mantle there is a clock. When you point at it, you get the (E) interact icon but nothing happens, at least not for me. But have you seen a clock anywhere else in Enderal? (It seems his name is Gajus.)

(2) Perhaps the Veiled Woman the personified Mother Nature and is also the Aged Man's Woman in the Water: "Why did you wake me, are we there yet? I still believe in our dream." Perhaps she must be awakened each time there is a cleansing to restart life & mankind, and her dream is that some day the cleansings will end and life will be permanent. At the entrance to the Aged Man's Mansion, there is a statue that could be the veiled woman.

staircase at Aged Man mansion

If you look closely in the greenery at the base, there is a small face grimacing, perhaps that of a child being born (mankind renewed)

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by MyLongestJourney

Posted: 07.09.2016 15:13

Yeah,I do not think your theory has merit.The most telling clue is the Aged Man's letter to his friend.The Aged man has both a name and a friend and talks about his pride being his downfall.Time has neither friends or feelings/personal flaws.And why would he heep the Veiled woman in stasis?Jespar informs you that Quranian mentalists (mortals) have found a way to slow the passage of time by being in a deep dream state.So the woman in the vat is a mortal.She also calls Gajus (the aged man) her love.A love romance between Time and Nature?Seems far fetched.Plus her mention of their "dream" fits well with the Star City alternative ending where you the fleshless prophet flee to the Star City in an effort to built a better humanity.

Re: Aged man origins? [SPOILERS] - by badgesareus

Posted: 07.09.2016 19:06

Seems far fetched

Unlike the story itself?

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