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Topic title - English Version delayed!!

https://forum.sureai.net/viewtopic.php?t=9473

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Re: English Version delayed!! - by Caleb8980

Posted: 02.08.2016 12:43

Hazzmat wrote:
Here they chose for us and assumed nobody wants or would appreciate a german speaking Enderal and it's funny because they considered it a while back but then suddenly dropped it.

The amount of prejudice in that sentence alone is stunning.

I sure hope that you are writing this to every single AAA release ever - because they do not give you a German release with English subtitles, but instead only a suboptimal English voiced release.

And please, don't give me that crap about a simultanous release - it was clear from the beginning that we cannot release both versions at the same time; we have neither the server power, nor the manpower to do so.

But ok, let's talk about the german version with English subtitles; I will list up all of the problems this version has and you can decide if you really would want that release to go public with these (and I when I write public, I mean all people in the world, not just you or a selected few from this forum):

1. The server: Yes, we cannot support 3 different versions with our servers, actually we rented some servers just so that we could/can manage the english and the German release - and we are still very concerned about our patch sizes, hence most of the german bards could only be released some weeks after the german release - not because they weren't ready earlier, but because a 450MB Update coupled with a good amount of release pack downloads would have killed our servers!

2. The whole software infrastructure: A third version would take a third launcher and a third update process - this does not only hit the ceiling of our servers, but also of our manpower. If you pull out the testers/sounddesigners we currently are a great team of 8 people, tell me how you would make the infrastructure and keep it running with these numbers?

So then why don't we just use the German launcher and its update process? Well for one this would be really idiotic with the German interface, but ok let's say we would release just an english version of the German launcher and keep everything else the same.

Each Update would revert the entirety of Enderal back into german - you would need to manually patch every single Update to keep the English language. So once more, do you think all the people in the world (minus German speaking countries) would have the ability, patience and interest to update that? When the German speakers already have a huge amount of absolutely dumb problems arising from stupid things they did?

3. A problem arising from the EV version: I already said that before but around 40% of all subtitles in the EV are misplaced if you play with them in a german dub version. This would actually mean that I would have to manually move all of these to their right position, translate german sentences which are not there anymore in the EV and then check the english subs for things which were not said in the german version at all!
This would not be just a month of work, it would take around 2-3 months just to have a result one at least dares to play with.

4. You think that you are the total vocal majority (meaning there are more players in here that would play with a German version with English subs than those who only play an English dubbed version) - but no, you are the vocal majority here in this forum, the comments underneath the (German) launch trailer spoke of something entirely different.
We were asked why we released Enderal in German language (sometimes even called N**i language, and yes directly in the comments of that video) as they would not play such a version, even with English subs.

And wherever you look there is a good amount of people who actually would not play a German version with English subs and because of that also never played Nehrim. Tell me - why is that a good thing? Why should we release it only in German with English subs if that drastically lessens our reach?

I have told you this before in the Youtube comments underneath the Launch Trailer and I'll tell it to you once more here:

You are not the least bit concerned about us or about the English version as a whole, you act out of pure self-interest and try to hide it behind some nonsensical points. You only care about how fast YOU can play an English version and don't care about anyone else.

I am honestly fed up with the crap in here: I am awake until 2 or 3 A.M. each single day for the EV (Marvin even longer), my sleeping time amounts to a bit more than 5 hours and I have to work from 9 in the morning to 8 in the evening everyday (holidays and weekend included!). But I am nevertheless happy to be of help for SureAI, who are a bit like my personal heroes.
I am doing the EV not out of obligation nor because I receive any sort of advantage for myself. I am doing it because I can help these guys and I am doing it for you, the English speaking crowd - just as I also did that Q&A in here; I've done it for you, because I personally think that you are just as important as the German speaking people.

Hence it pains me to no end to read all of these accusations about how the EV is not important for us at all - yes, not everything worked out as planned, but when it does? Honestly I catch myself asking myself about why I am even doing this more and more - no I won't stop, as that is the worst option and because I care far too much about the EV for that.
But I surely won't stand by idly if anybody spreads false rumours about the EV - I will erase troll posts, I will warn posters of such texts and I will also ban them if necessary.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Guar Kamole

Posted: 02.08.2016 17:56

Eolath wrote:
Alzucard wrote:
if it comes to war i bet Russia wins
I doubt it, Russia doesn't even have the capacity nor the economy to win a war VS the EU, let alone the US. They're bogged down as it is in Syria and losing material every single day.

But if war should break out we're going over to Lizz's place, hole up, play the shit out of Enderal and wait for all this to blow over.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Eolath

Posted: 02.08.2016 18:25

Guar Kamole wrote:
Eolath wrote:
Alzucard wrote:
if it comes to war i bet Russia wins
I doubt it, Russia doesn't even have the capacity nor the economy to win a war VS the EU, let alone the US. They're bogged down as it is in Syria and losing material every single day.
But if war should break out we're going over to Lizz's place, hole up, play the shit out of Enderal and wait for all this to blow over.

I f*ckin love that movie

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Xagul

Posted: 02.08.2016 18:34

Eolath wrote:
I f*ckin love that movie

Me too! Therefore, from time to time it's good to have this:
to get through a tough day at the office

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Eolath

Posted: 02.08.2016 19:11

Xagul wrote:
Me too! Therefore, from time to time it's good to have this:
to get through a tough day at the office

Sounds like Caleb needs it more than me, honestly. I cannot imagine working 70 hrs/week every single week, 50 hrs already tires me out and I work that much far from every week

Caleb8980 wrote:
I am honestly fed up with the crap in here: I am awake until 2 or 3 A.M. each single day for the EV (Marvin even longer), my sleeping time amounts to a bit more than 5 hours and I have to work from 9 in the morning to 8 in the evening everyday (holidays and weekend included!). But I am nevertheless happy to be of help for SureAI, who are a bit like my personal heroes.
I am doing the EV not out of obligation nor because I receive any sort of advantage for myself. I am doing it because I can help these guys and I am doing it for you, the English speaking crowd - just as I also did that Q&A in here; I've done it for you, because I personally think that you are just as important as the German speaking people.

What work do you do, if I may ask? Investment banker or something? Or God forbid game development, I hear people clock a shitload of hours into that profession, although most of the time not over the weekends.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by sphanlon

Posted: 02.08.2016 19:22

Thanks Caleb and everybody for all you do for us. I can't wait to play. We really appreciate you.

I didn't know German with English subs would have to be it's own special version and people couldn't easily mod it together. Or that we are getting full EV INSTEAD of that. I feel sorry for the people that wanted it, but I'm excited to get what I've been looking forward to.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by badgesareus

Posted: 02.08.2016 19:37

When the German speakers already have a huge amount of absolutely dumb problems arising from stupid things they did?

I couldn't stop laughing, it will be true of the English speakers also, I'm sure!

Re: English Version delayed!! - by democrite

Posted: 02.08.2016 20:54

Hi Caleb,

You should'nt waste your time answering some "weirdo", we all know thr great work/achievement you are providing us and will never be enough thanks fully.
You will always find some weirdos who like to waste their time and yours it's like it is ...

Bon courage et merci encore

Re: English Version delayed!! - by irmi

Posted: 02.08.2016 20:57

Caleb8980 wrote:
[...]
I am honestly fed up with the crap in here: I am awake until 2 or 3 A.M. each single day for the EV (Marvin even longer), my sleeping time amounts to a bit more than 5 hours and I have to work from 9 in the morning to 8 in the evening everyday (holidays and weekend included!). But I am nevertheless happy to be of help for SureAI, who are a bit like my personal heroes.
I am doing the EV not out of obligation nor because I receive any sort of advantage for myself. I am doing it because I can help these guys and I am doing it for you, the English speaking crowd - just as I also did that Q&A in here; I've done it for you, because I personally think that you are just as important as the German speaking people. [...]

Thanks, Caleb, for your great posting!

It always baffles me how ignorant some people are when it comes to free things. I'm grown up, I work a lot, and as cliché as it may sound to the <20yo: Spare time is a valuable good, maybe the most valuable of all. SureAI spend their free time on Enderal. Thing is, they all as well could go swimming or to a Biergarten or play a game instead of putting up with those BS comments that are really nothing but bitchin' and whinin', and cause only frustration and anger that really nobody needs.

I personally am more than grateful that they've created this wonderful game, and that they're working on fixing issues and the EV in every free minute. If you think they're not fast enough for your taste, and that's the only thing you have to say instead of some well-deserved encouragement or constructive (!) criticism, please don't even bother. Nobody needs your uncalled-for negativity.

Do you think Enderal is nothing worth because it's free? Just go and multiply the sum of working hours of so many people by approx. 25-30€, as that's what I'd assume a skilled employee earns in the Munich area before taxes/health insurance etc. are substracted (I assume an industry salary), and more with a degree like a master or doctorate.

edit: Clarifications regarding my calculation. Thanks to Xagul for pointing that out!

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Kachiun

Posted: 02.08.2016 22:16

Caleb - you are the man

. Ignore the trolls and take your time with the work your doing. And thank you for the time and energy you put into this awesome project.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by irmi

Posted: 02.08.2016 22:44

irmi wrote:
Eolath wrote:
Not adept enough apparently, when I kept encountering words I just didn't know the meaning of I gave up. It's not like you can pause the game between lines to reread the sentence several times.
If you open the console during a conversation, will you still see the subtitles? I'm going to check that later. It definitely stops the convo and resumes it at the point where you've hit the ^.

Alright, I finally tried that. Unfortunately, the console puts a dark block over the subs, so you can't read them when you open the console

. I think it worked like that in Oblivion, but not anymore.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by JoeCapricorn

Posted: 03.08.2016 01:28

People don't realize that Nehrim was a massive undertaking. The reason (I assume) why there wasn't an English voiced version is because of limited resources.

SureAI still has limited resources. I was elated to hear they would be doing an English voiced version of Enderal. I figured it would take longer because the primary version is in German and it's not as simple as directly translating between German to English. There are going to be differences due to some words having no direct meaning. For instance, German has "ihr" as a second person plural pronoun. English doesn't have an exact equivalent. Sometimes just "you" is used and regional dialects might say "y'all", "yinz" or "youse". "Übung macht den Meister" means "Practice makes perfect" but a word for word translation is "Practice makes the master". There are other idioms and figures of speech likely used throughout the German version that doesn't have any exact correlation with English. Even trickier would be translating poems and preserving the rhythm, meter and rhyme. I assume that is why some in game books were still in German in Nehrim (like "Freudenherz").

Nehrim was very fun to play. There were still bits and pieces here and there of untranslated notes. I think I ran across an untranslated subtitle as well. None of that ruined the experience. It took a lot of work to get it to that point where an error here and there did not diminish the experience. I also found it fun to follow along with the German spoken dialogue as I took German in high school and college. I've been to Germany, Switzerland and Austria. I've conversed in German, though I'm not fluent and I probably knew much more back in the day than I do now because I haven't had any practice for several years.

Enderal was announced pretty soon after Skyrim was released. I've been waiting for 4 years for this whole new game that is entirely free and made by a team doing it because they want to. I can wait a few more weeks knowing that it will come out when SureAI feels it is ready. Then it will be SUPER AWESOME!!!!11one

Caleb said something about server load that had me wondering about something though. For some large-scale mods (mainly Immersive NPCs for Skyrim), new versions are put up in a bittorrent file. Maybe consider that as an additional method of distribution? It would lighten the load off the servers if that is a concern. If plenty of people seed the file, download speeds can get really fast.

Don't listen to some of the loud buttholes. They are just farting nonsense out of their mouths anyway. The vast majority that are waiting for the English version are doing so patiently (and silently).

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Hazzmat

Posted: 03.08.2016 03:07

Wow. Insulting people like a little kid for stating what they think. Nice going buddy!

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Principe Alessandro

Posted: 03.08.2016 03:42

Xagul wrote:
Principe Alessandro wrote:
German voice acting is simply better, hands down about this, simply speaking I couldn't understand why the modders had to invest time and work hours on the english voice acting when an english subbed version is good as well in understanding the meaning of what game characters are saying and at the same time it retains the perfectly fitted sound of the german voice acting.

Though nothing personal, I guess that after all people have their own preferences.
You don't understand, maybe that's the point: This project is a reference work by guys who started simply modding an ended up with becoming professionals. What do you think, will impress companies like Bethesda (just to name an example)? A well done German TC or a well-designed project that was able to satisfy the big crowd of English-speaking folks? While at the same time being able to gather native speakers to translate texts/scripts and, just to make it square, find speakers?

Face it: This project is not just about making a satisfying game for the community in one's spare time. It is a project showing that they're able to run a project. And this is the very reason why orientating to low-level ("english subbed version is good as well in understanding the meaning of what game characters are saying and at the same time it retains the perfectly fitted sound of the german voice acting" ) was not an option.

Well that is an entirely different matter then if their intention is to make a mod on par with a commercial work, anyway I must point out that I'm not even a native English speaker, my native language is Italian and I'm not even sure that the majority of non German players are native English speakers so I am also a bit surprised that there are so many fans that wants at all cost the English voice acting version of Enderal.

I am just saying that I consider the German voice acting superior, one of the things that I enjoyed with Nehrim was the characters speaking in German because the sound of their voice was amazingly capable to fully express their emotions which I fear is a feature we will miss with the English voice acting.

Nehrim wasn't only a good game but had also a great storyline and sometimes it touched deep cultural themes, what was so great about Nehrim wasn't only the gamey aspect but also the artistic aspect.

And from the artistic aspect the German language is amazingly good, I never encountered something similar in any other game which I must point out that I have played only in English.

Anyway I don't want to cause any bad feelings with my opinion, I waited many years for Enderal and I have no doubt that it will be the greatest achievement of the modding community, not just the modding community of the TES saga but the whole modding community.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by MarvinKp

Posted: 03.08.2016 05:11

I played both versions now and even though i have to admit that I like the german version a little more (maybe because german is my mother tongue), the english cast is doing a really great job. In some cases I like it even more. Especially the english "high ones" are outstanding. Both versions are definitely worth trying.

Maybe a short update: I have matched all the english dialoques to the scenes by now and I am currently fixing the missing voices I have found during my playthrough.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by democrite

Posted: 03.08.2016 05:21

Maybe a short update: I have matched all the english dialoques to the scenes by now and I am currently fixing the missing voices I have found during my playthrough

best new of the day, so the messiah is close to come, alleluiah

Re: English Version delayed!! - by dolk

Posted: 03.08.2016 05:58

Caleb,

I made an account just to say, thank you. I have been a fan of SureAI since Nehrim. I'm looking forward to the new game, and will wait patiently for it. Because I know it will be worth it.

Thanks.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Thanakil

Posted: 03.08.2016 07:52

Even tho I was a bit sad to see it delayed, I'm very happy and grateful that this mod exists at all.
I look forward to playing it, as it already seems like everyone involved did a great job.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Xagul

Posted: 03.08.2016 08:14

Hazzmat wrote:
Wow. Insulting people like a little kid for stating what they think. Nice going buddy!

Where exactly was the insult? I could not find any. In addition: for "just my opinion" you obiously had your problems with expressing it. Sounded to me much like you're demanding something and in this case: We reap what we sow.

Re: English Version delayed!! - by Caleb8980

Posted: 03.08.2016 15:27

Hazzmat wrote:
Wow. Insulting people like a little kid for stating what they think. Nice going buddy!

Yeah no, I didn't insult you - I merely stated what I think.

Where did I refer to you in my post? These are the 2 main parts:

1st.

The amount of prejudice in that sentence alone is stunning.

I sure hope that you are writing this to every single AAA release ever - because they do not give you a German release with English subtitles, but instead only a suboptimal English voiced release.

And please, don't give me that crap about a simultanous release - it was clear from the beginning that we cannot release both versions at the same time; we have neither the server power, nor the manpower to do so.

Where is the insult to you? The "prejudice"?

Some people enjoy subbed anime, others dubbed, the options are there you can choose. Here they chose for us and assumed nobody wants or would appreciate a german speaking Enderal and it's funny because they considered it a while back but then suddenly dropped it.

Well - what else would you call "Here they chose for us and assumed nobody wants or would appreciate a german speaking Enderal"?

We did not assume anything, hence I gave you that long, long explanation of our thought process. The decision was made after much thinking and certainly not just along the way.

Just for clarification:
Definition of prejudice: Prejudice is prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case.

As you didn't know anything about the so called revelant facts, you were prejudiced, as simple as that.

2nd.

I have told you this before in the Youtube comments underneath the Launch Trailer and I'll tell it to you once more here:

You are not the least bit concerned about us or about the English version as a whole, you act out of pure self-interest and try to hide it behind some nonsensical points. You only care about how fast YOU can play an English version and don't care about anyone else.

So let me once more quote what you wrote:

Some people enjoy subbed anime, others dubbed, the options are there you can choose. Here they chose for us and assumed nobody wants or would appreciate a german speaking Enderal and it's funny because they considered it a while back but then suddenly dropped it.

This is not just a prejudice but more:

"Here they chose for us" - You say that as if it was a scandal.

And this is where you are really selfish - and this is also the reason why I asked you if you write that to every AAA release ever.

Where did we choose anything for you? Or better said: when was the choice yours? Are suddenly the players deciding in which language any given game releases?

My whole beef with you is exactly that - you put yourself into the role of a victim, so that we are the bad guys - whether or not you do that consciously doesn't really matter, but saying such things is rather cruel and just not the truth.

Yes, my post was aggressive, but not to the point of baselessly insulting you or anybody else - as I said above, I merely stated what I think. If you feel honestly insulted then I am sorry - but I won't back down from my opinion of you.

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