[SPOILERS] The ending. How do I feel about it.

[Ragnarok]

It is certainly not my intention to undermine others perception of the game. I simply don't understand where you are seeing this transcendent nature within the Enderal. However, if you've no requirement to be understood on the matter, then I shall respect that and not inquire further. *bows*

But on the matter of uniqueness and originality, perhaps I should be a little more clear. I'm not talking about this in general story telling terms. I'm talking about the fact that the core plot framework of Enderal and its related sub elements are a close mirror to those of Mass Effect 3. Anyone who has played the latter and then Enderal should not fail to see the many striking similarities between them. If you want more clarity, I'm happy to list some of them.

Now, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with that, and I don't have an issue with it. However, from my personal perspective, other than the specific setting, characters and unique dialogue (which are all exceptionally well done), I've effectively experienced this 'story' before in variation. So, in that respect, I guess it most likely has way less impact on me than it would on someone who was experiencing it for the first time. It's a 'YMMV' kind of thing.

I am quite alright with leaving it at that. I never wanted to force anyone to see what I see.

There is a fundamental difference between Enderal and ME3 (although of course the similarities are there), but I don't think it will be worth it to pursue it.

Thanks for the time and the discussion!

[simtam]

Take the vanilla game, Skyrim for example. Sure, the story could be deep, emotional, sad and the story could end with Alduin devouring Tamriel while the Dragonborn remains sole survivor to repopulate Nirn. Sure, the writers could do something like that, but what would be the point to do so in an open world RPG? Skyrim engine is built for a power fantasy with happy ending. The engine main selling point it is the infinite radiant quests and that made Skyrim a juggernaut top selling RPG. The engine matches the story in such a way that you can achieve total immersion because you cannot detach the storytelling from the game mechanics and visuals.

That infinite radiant quests sold Skyrim? A bold proposition. Nevertheless, Enderal the total conversion makes little use of that part of Skyrim engine. Whether it was a conscious author's decision, or just a concession made in the development hell - I won't tell.

So what would be the "point to do so in an open world RPG", you asked? Why, to have the story improved, of course! or at least make it last longer... Now I am not particularly into that "sad story is good story" thing, and while I appreciate Enderal for being the "Watchmen" of Skyrim-engine quest mods, I imagine the ending ultimately a happy one possible. After all, the Ragnarok myth ends with a pair of survivors: Líf and Lífþrasir. Aure entuluva!

[Braescher]

On the Mass Effect thing Moirai and Ragnarok there is an AMA with Nicolas on another thread ( http://forum.sureai.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=11087 ) that can help you clarify the similarities.

Link to the AMA on Reddit


Did you get inspiration from Mass Effect 3? Some people see a lot of similarities between the two plots.

As for the Mass Effect similarities, no, not really. While I loved the Mass Effect franchise (Even the ending, don't hit me!), the third part came out when the fundamentals of our story had already been set for over half a year. Funnily enough, the first thing I said to Johannes after finishing Mass Effect 3 was that now everyone is going to tell us that we copied them. However, I never saw it as that much of a problem: I thought that it becomes very clear that the core themes of our game are VERY different from Mass Effect: Mass Effect is about survival and interracial conflicts, Enderal is about mankind's inner demons, the free will, and loss - at least that's how I see it. It's only similar on a superficial level, and then again, the fact that the world is threatened by an "evil" species and is trying to save itself by building a machine isn't something Mass Effect invented after all.

That infinite radiant quests sold Skyrim? A bold proposition. Nevertheless, Enderal the total conversion makes little use of that part of Skyrim engine. Whether it was a conscious author's decision, or just a concession made in the development hell - I won't tell.

So what would be the "point to do so in an open world RPG", you asked? Why, to have the story improved, of course! or at least make it last longer... Now I am not particularly into that "sad story is good story" thing, and while I appreciate Enderal for being the "Watchmen" of Skyrim-engine quest mods, I imagine the ending ultimately a happy one possible. After all, the Ragnarok myth ends with a pair of survivors: Líf and Lífþrasir. Aure entuluva!

I might have not expressed my idea correctly in the previous post. I did not want to say that that the radiant quests sold Skyrim. Specially because the radiant system was kinda boring after the 10th time you had to kill bandit X in dungeon Y. But when I remember the Skyrim promotional material, interviews, trailers and all that prior the realease, there was a lot of "Skyrim is an infinite game" marketing.

Yeah, the "rebuild mankind" ending is a bit "happier" when you think about it. But it killed my hopes of killing bandits and exploring dungeons with Calia and Whirlwind the donkey once the urgent threat of the High Ones was eliminated.

[Ragnarok]

Braescher: The fundamental difference I saw and hinted at between Enderal and ME 3 is quite clearly stated there. Thanks for sharing.