SureAI

As the title says.

I think I would choose the "sacrifice" ending.

My biggest problem with the "Flee to Star City" ending, is that there are so many possibilities things would go wrong once more. Because the Prophet is immortal, he would certainly outlive his or her partner, causing him to be left alone in a world devoid of other sentient beings for at least thousands of years. And we all know such isolation could lead to insanity, leaving the next sentient species with a highly insane man for a guardian deity.
Unless the player manages to turn his/her companion immortal the same way those Starlings in the Noble District managed to do, by transferring their soul into a giant Starling Robot.

The "Sacrifice" ending kind of left me on a hopeful note that the destruction of Enderal gave humanity a moment of lucidity. And with the companion of the Prohet still alive, there might be a chance their knowledge could avert the Cleansing.

I feel both ultimately carry the same, uncertain hopefulness. The game has shown doubts towards both ways of society "moving past" the problems caused by the base human nature/the high ones, like the inability of mere individuals, even with godlike powers, to hold their position and assert themselves over people for prolonged amounts of time, or communities like the Starlings, built on different sets of values apparently still being unable to sustain themselves indefinitely.

To which also come the numerous instances where we already see strong people, leaders and wise men fall prey to their faults and misconcetpions, grow tired or crushed under the weight of time. The notion that you in this case, just you who has been deceived too all this time should to be the one who can lead all of humanity into a better age, simply by virtue of knowing of the high ones, but hardly equipped to build a whole society anew on redifinded value systems and flaws that so often naturally arouse thousands of times before... well, I can't help but feel that choosing that ending, hoping you will know better, is either somewhat naive or just arrogant. Not that there's much of an option, really, and I so digged the whole atmosphere and that last scene in the sky city, only you and Jaspar and a pure world, his words about in the end it not actually mattering if humans are there or not, it being up to us now. HNNNG. Maybe I'm just a romantic, but there was also something incredibly, strangely freeing and hopeful about the way it concluded, looking past my own issues with it, that will definitely stick with me for a long time to come.

On the other hand there's the sacrifice which I probably personally identify with more, preferring the idea of society as a whole being able to advance, reinforced but Jaspers spectacular speech about the moments of clarity, and also the the idea that it's people like you, who are ready to sacrifice themselves even just to give others another chance or advance the state of things just the smallest bit, who can make a difference. Step by step, generation by generation, a counterpart to the destructive side of humanity that itself is ever present. The conflic between these views has been a large thread throughout the whole game, and while yeah, there's always a matter of degree involved, the second choice is certainly the one that lies closer to my personal beliefs.

Gah, sorry for the little wall of text. I only just came off finishing my first playthrough and have all those thoughts and feelings still to work through... If by the way any of the devs are reading this: Thanks you so much for makin this game and investing so much effort and dedication to this. It's people like you too who give me faith in the state of things.

I prefer the sacrifice ending because it seemed to be the one that would carry the story on and is the more dramatic one to me (first mod/game to actually get me emotional, Bravo Sureai!), but there's also a chance that the escape ending can be implemented into the sequel.

The escape ending as already explained, might lead into insanity or another "Aged Man" type scenario for the Prophet. But there's a chance that the Prophet or whichever character they escaped with decides that escaping was a selfish act and decides to go back down and try to disrupt the cleansing which would lead to the outcome of what I think will happen in the sacrifice ending.

As for the sacrifice ending, it won't be easy for either Calia or Jespar to convince the other continents to halt the building of other beacons and might get branded as a heretic or insane. Then there's also that chance that the High Ones will send another emissary (I'm not sure if there's a specific number of types of emissaries) or puppet to specifically kill any survivors or anyone who would try to expose the real nature of the cleansing. While it is true that the Arazaleans (never mentioned if both factions or just one of the two are aware) know about the true nature of the cleansing, and knowing the High Ones, they will most likely cause a civil war or an invasion in the continent.

So either ending can possibly be implemented into the sequel/canon.

SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T PLAYED NEHRIM OR DIDN'T FULLY EXPLORE THE MAP:

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There's a dungeon which has a doomsday scenario that says that another planet will crash into Vyn, so Vyn is screwed either way. With or without cycle, that is, if the doomsday scenario happens at all.

The Star City Ending since a Reddit member proposed that you can return to Vyn after the destruction,built a Beacon yourself and banish the High Ones once and for all.Then you do not have to try to play God,trying to achieve the impossible that is a humanity without Ego.(After all Ego has it's positive side).

Hmm, hard to say, since it still leaves you up to having to create the numinos, and get into the mind of an old one, and the way that happens in the game is still rather foggy. The strong presence of the old ones still coincides with the rise of a civilisation and it's fall into unrest, so maybe it's near impossible to clarly locate one in the "downtime" between cycles. Then again, you could probably just wall yourself up somewhere and then just wait for the inevitable to happen for milleia and then do your thing, but at this point I don't really see the thing having much to do with any of the games actual themes and messages *shrugs*

Finished the game last night and I seriously had to pause for a couple of minutes to think this through. Ultimately I went with the Sacrifice ending, as I feel that is the logical conclusion to the story.

While fleeing from the Cleansing and waiting out for the new Cycle sounds nice on paper, I feel like I've read too many books to see it ending happily

Seriously though, the game if full of people who tried to cheat fate and ended up making things worse for themselves and everyone around them. My prime example here is the Ancient Starlings - they survived the Cleansing and made an utopia for themselves and...what of it? They didn't stop the Cycle, they didn't try to warn humanity, they did nothing and, in the end, disappeared and left behind only the remnants of their city.

The Black Guardian is also another example of this, he cheated death and became immortal and, again, what of it? He became a powerless spectator and (quite possibly) went mad. Then you have the Aged Man, who seems to be another Prophet from a previous Cycle, the fact he also couldn't do anything about the Cleansing leads me to believe that this choice simply isn't the right one. Those are just the most obvious examples, but the game is full of many other hints and nods at the overall theme - you can't be the One. Yes, you are special, but humanity doesn't being and end with you. The survival of the species is a joint effort, Saviors often end up being false messiahs.

There's also the philosophical standpoint, as evidenced by one of the questions you can ask the Black Guardian. Just what IS humanity without an ego? That is an integral part of man's nature - just as humility and altruism are there, so too are pride and arrogance. Every character you meet during the course of the game more or less emphasizes that, yes, we as a species are flawed, but we are not irredeemable. I don't think that by playing God you can just erase that part of human nature, maybe at the start, but somewhere, some day, someone is going to give in to those dark urges and the Cycle will begin again.

Finally, consider this - isn't it completely arrogant and egoistical to believe that YOU are going to be the one to create a better, "improved" mankind? The very last moments of the game drove this point home, when I was moving to destroy the black crystals powering the Beacon and saw Tealor lying there. "I led them into the light, I alone..." he said, even at death's door his pride was everything. (such a tragic character, BTW) By abandoning humanity and being the one to "lead them to a brighter future" aren't you essentially falling into the same trap? Intentional or not, I feel like that was a really clever parallel. My point being, you can't stamp out pride and arrogance by essentially elevating yourself to godhood, that's not how it works!

So yeah, I feel like humanity has a better chance with the Sacrifice ending. It's not going to be easy and there will doubtlessly be many more setbacks and bloodshed, but at least with that ending people will have something to look up to. As Jasper says during one of your talks, having a symbol, an idea to believe can bring out the best in even the most cold-hearted cynic (like himself). The Prophet's sacrifice and the knowledge of what the Beacon does, I feel, is enough to tip the scale's balance in humanity's favour.

Sorry for rambling so much, it's been many years since a game engaged me on such a philosophical level!

for me, i'd say it's the flee ending that takes the cake... and anyway, either way you cut it nothing is really resolved by the end. and, given everything going on by the end of the game... i find it unlikely the sacrifice ending would give you a net gain.

---edit
i could go into detail, however i've already said my piece in a few other threads.

Well, although the guy that did AMA on Reddit said no, I still think the fleeing ending is part of High Ones' plan.

All very true, but you don't have to rid humanity of pride to prevent the next cycle, you just have to make sure they understand not to construct the beacon until they have a numinos. You don't have to create an "improved" mankind, and you certainly don't have to be a god/goddess. I really wish there'd been a dialog option to tell the Black Guardian you don't want to be a god, because making yourself an object of worship seems to me to defeat the purpose of waiting. Sure, you need people to listen to you, but I think being a powerful immortal(-ish) teacher would be enough for that. Learn from the Lightborn's mistakes, tell people you were born the child of a farmer and a fugitive, and someday someone will probably kill you, and that won't matter as long as they don't forget what you told them.

Humanity doesn't need to be rid of pride, but you can teach them to recognize it and how to manage it. Really, even in the game, pride isn't the problem so much as self-deception about pride. Jespar mentioned this early on, people who do good things because they need to see themselves as good people are easy to manipulate, and manipulation is how the High Ones work.

Also, while a sacrifice can be a powerful motivator (and certainly would be for Calia or Jespar), the people you need to motivate won't have much reason to care about the Prophet. They might come to care about you after hearing your story, but that's a long shot, and it all depends on whether they believe your companion. I'm not saying this ending's hopeless, but if they are convinced, it will probably be by the threat of annihilation. An entire continent just died, the fact that someone they never met died more heroically than most is probably not going to matter to them.

Hey, I'm brand spanking new to the forums, but I just finished Enderal about five minutes ago so I can't wait to rush in and talk about everything at once.

My opinion keeps changing every five minutes, but this was my latest thought. I'm sure I'll have changed my perspective by morning, but I still think this is worth thinking about.

I chose the escape ending, not because I thought it would work, but because I thought NEITHER one of them would work. I think the Cycle is inevitable. And I'm not 100% sure that's a bad thing. As human beings we are made up of millions of micro-organisms, but none of them give us sentience. We depend on them for survival so that we can be something so much more than what they are.

What if the High Ones are the same? What if humanity truly is just a collection of parts, waiting to be assembled into something great? Perhaps the High Ones aren't selfish, but self-less, willing to risk their own destruction by means of the Beacon in order to help humanity advance into something truly alive. In real life, we would give no thought to the cares of micro-organisms. As far as we're concerned, they don't HAVE cares. The High Ones feel the same about humans. We are nothing to them, perhaps we don't even count as life to them. We wouldn't care much whether bacteria live or die. But if we had the power to construct them into a human being... would we give them that chance? The chance to develop a conscious? What if we could create something beautiful at the expense of micro-organisms we don't even consider to have feelings?

If this is true, then maybe the High Ones are doing us a favor. If it's not, but we truly can't stop the Cycle, then it doesn't matter anyway.

So in the end, I didn't care which ending I picked, and I "let" my character decide. In my game the Prophetess reached the same conclusion I did: there was no way to stop the Cycle. So, rather than give up her own chance of happiness, she decided just to leave with Jespar. If he proves to be immortal, she's willing to wait it out and try to help the next generation of humans. If he dies, her first plan is to try to take her own life. If that fails... well, I imagine when the next generation comes along, she'll be an insane woman living in a house full of wooden puppets or something.