The Moral of the Story & How It Relates to Our World

[badgesareus]

There seems to be endless discussion about who the aged man and veiled lady are, whether the story is all a dream, etc. But I haven't seen any discussion of how this fable is linked to the real world.

At one point Constantine goes on quite a rant about the evils of religion, and his description seems to almost perfectly reflect what "radical Islam" has been doing over the past several years. Is everyone too politically correct to discuss what seems to be a major theme in the story? [I wish I had written down everything Constantine said, maybe someone else can come up with it.] This is especially ironic given that Constantine the Great was a strong patron of Christianity and the church.

Secondly, there is the theme of civilizations being utterly destroyed and cleansed. This brings to mind the Biblical Great Flood -- a cleansing of sorts. What about the complete disappearance of Atlantis, was it cleansed? There are stone monoliths many thousands of years old, and they exist even though they would be difficult to recreate with our modern technology, such as the 11,000 year old monoliths of Göbekli Tepe, Turkey. Are these remnants of a cleansed civilization?

Surely this would make a great "compare and contrast" question as often asked on some college exam.

[Raminus]

At one point Constantine goes on quite a rant about the evils of religion, and his description seems to almost perfectly reflect what "radical Islam" has been doing over the past several years.

Aside from that and a few other remarks I don't think there are other references to make Enderal a political commentary of our times instead of philosophical story.

But if I had to find some parallels between Enderal and our world I would say that the Order could represent the Western world and Nehrim could represent ISIS. After the infighting in Nehrim ( the Middle East ) a new leader rises that threatens the Order in order to bring all of the world to a "higher state of being".

We don't know what the High Ones are except that they are quite primitive in that they desire survival above all else, they are cruel and unforgiving and desire the destruction of all empires. I would say that the High Ones could represent the ideology of Islam. I doubt anyone could argue that the islamic world isn't primitive compared to the west even today, it is repressive towards its own followers and it enforces horrific laws. The islamic population tend to have much higher birthrate ( parallel to the High Ones ) and some islamic leaders did wish to conquer the world or to destroy the west.

The Order has become godless (atheism) but still follow the philosophy of their gods ( western culture, laws, values)
They are having trouble dealing with the threat because of the many traitors within its ranks who are at best misled fools or worse even agents of Nehrim. Parallel to our world would be the PC crowd and even many leaders of leading countries that either do not wish to recognize the threat or they see it as a way to stay in power (more voters inclined to vote for them).

If you look hard enough anything can be made political so I doubt all of these observations are intentional by the author but here you go.

[Makesin]

Besides, Enderal doesn't really touch religion as much as Nehrim did (now that's a game where religious bashing on the one hand and religious fanaticism on the other was common place maybe a bit too much). Yes, there are people who bash religion in Enderal (Jespar, a moderate atheist and Constantine, a fanatical atheist), people who are religious (though they are mainly represented by Calia, who doesn't believe in gods per se, but rather in their ideals).

I'd say that the main philosophical question of the story setting (both in Nehrim and in Enderal) isn't the question of "Is religion good, or bad", but rather "Is order from tyranny better, or worse than suffering from freedom." So if I see some connections to the real life, it's rather in some nods to failed countries like Afghanistan, Iraq and Lybia. First there was a tyranny, then the tyrants were cast out and constant war for power came instead.

[Glycerin]

The author of Enderal's main story once stated that he was inspired by C. G. Jung, so maybe the story doesn't relate so much to any ongoing political conflicts in our world and is more about how the human psyche works. Yes, there are quite a few comments on religion or social order, but I wouldn't necessarily put that in the same context as the High Ones or the Cleansing.
I am really no expert on psychoanalysis, far from it, so if anyone can share some insights from that perspective, I would appreciate it.

[Makesin]

I'm no expert on psychoanalysis and Jung either, but I'd say that that refers to the main story, i.e. the personal development of the Prophet. While all the remarks in this thread mostly refer to the setting and the back-story of Enderal.

[badgesareus]

I'd say that the main philosophical question of the story setting (both in Nehrim and in Enderal) isn't the question of "Is religion good, or bad", but rather "Is order from tyranny better, or worse than suffering from freedom."

That's a good comment; I wonder how most people in Syria would answer that.

more about how the human psyche works.

Another good comment. Both of these comments provide some insight into how the story might help us understand our own world, something with more meaning than just the story itself.

[Stampfer]

[...] how the story might help us understand our own world, something with more meaning than just the story itself.

We were given hint about the outlook of the devs on that matter on the German forums - in the form of a video (here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wftl5j6yKlM). To my understanding in their view bad events like the cleansing are the result of a lack of insight into people's own motivations. A person's drive is made up by his ego through his self-image. Tealor in that regard kills off the whole world because he cannot live with the idea of him failing again. He wanted to be grand but nothing ever works out for him. In the end he comes up with the ridiculous idea that he can still be the person everyone admires by killing off everyone at the temple (eventually he is quite happy saying "I brought them the light. I alone!"). Once again the high ones push him into that direction with their last appearance. As another example the player character wants to be a hero, he blindly fulfills every quest given in the hope of being the one who saves the day, the only one with the power to alter destiny. There are many others as well like Yuslan or Coarek. Each one is hellbent on reaching his goal and therefore they all become puppets for the high ones in the process. Every messenger is guilty of the outcome with his actions.

And that brings us to the next thing that we were given to think about: the topic of guilt (remember the mind prison with your inmate Aixon? Someone on the German forums figured out that Aixon = Noxia = guilt - and then there was also the direct guilt question posed by Jespar during one of his private talks, the one about the woman & domestic violence). Tealor lacks a sense of guilt while the player character is potentially loaded with it (depends on your outlook on the whole family business, you instinctively choose your side in the beginning already when you answer the other refugee's [gosh, how I hate that word] question). The lack of or an overbearing sense of guilt can both be problematic in the regard of destroying yourself and your environment as well I guess. One ignores the needs of others in his pursuit of happiness, the other one constantly seeks to repent, becoming blind to what is actually needed.

I could pull some comparisons with current day politics in that regard too. But such things were probably not intended by the devs. Nehrim seems to be more of a candidate for political matters, on the topic of freedom and religion that is (then again I never played it... ).

Hmm... there was also another video. It popped up in relation to what was wrong with the way the lightbringers handled their people. This one is more directly about religion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RfUj09pWfM

(I swapped it out for an English video of the scene since the other one was in German, this one may be a bit shorter or longer)

Most of this is old and the result of some discussion on the German forums. I wasn't very original here.

[Makesin]

Thanks for the insight into the German forum. I wish my level of German was anywhere close to adequate to read (or even participate) there.

Guilt certainly is a major motivator of the Prophet (from the daddy dreams to Noxia to that little boy whose name I keep forgetting who tries to guilt trip the player to stay with him), and don't even mention Tealor ("I led them to the light. I, alone." The best quote of the game for me).

As for Nehrim, that game is sometimes a bit too cynical even for me.
(Nehrim Spoiler)

[+]

I mean, the whole war between Middlerealm and Northrealm seems to be caused by Taranor and Barateon disliking each other, so let's ruin the country for that.

And if what I read somewhere is true, that SureAI began writing this in 2011, then most of the similarities to contemporary world is endeed coincidental. But still quite interesting, I think.

[BigElectricCat]

Cool. Was waiting until finished to chime in with my own thoughts, but since already started...

Caveat: if I decide to just type & post-- this will probably be a textbook example of rambling disorganized thought. : )

Logic 2301:
Consciousness and was is it? I think most would agree that consciousness isn't something we can dissect and put in a Petri dish. It's a state of being.

The question of what this "conscious state of being" is exactly... seems to come up again & again in the game as player is knocked out, or has some waking dream sequence. The choice of "Daddy" is an interesting one. Writer trying to tell us something, or just reading too much into it?

Anyone notice the picture on Daddy's wall lifted from Blake? In the painting, Chronos (time) is eating a human torso. i.e. Time eats its own children by aging them. Wall art clutter picked because it's gory, or again... maybe a clue?

So what do we do with our time while we're conscious?

For me, what makes Enderal's story quite strong is character development. Both Calia (introvert from Jung) and Jespar (extrovert) grow as a result of experience and that's good writing.

Corney maybe, but perhaps Calia represents the dark side in all of us. Fight it, but to no avail-- just guilt and self recrimination when we-- as humans-- inevitably do something we regret later. Finally Calia accepts the 'demon' is a part of her. Accept it, and get on with life. Enjoy it! Go dancing!

Jespar of course is the opposite. That's good writing imo. Set them side by side to compare. Jespar might say, "Don't trust anyone, and don't count on anything in this life. The only constant isn't change. Life's only guarantee is that you're gonna get screwed over! So enjoy the moment and be happy while you can. Because sooner or later the other shoe is gonna drop."

This philosophy only takes him so far though. Like Calia, Jespar also grows as a person. On the ship (I think) he realizes he's still not satisfied. Why? Well no strings attached to anything or anyone... and no responsibility to any higher purpose... Partying gets old after a while right? There must be something more to this inexplicable thing we call living life. Say it's a "bitch" or say it's a "gift from God"-- makes no difference really. Both are belief systems.

So I guess I see the companion characters (and other NPCs) as really carrying the story and making it such a strong one.

As for the politics, ISIL, and fanaticism... In America we've had to endure a presidential election that won't take place for three months, and yet it feels like it has been going on for three years! Many of us are simply exhausted and tired of it.

So maybe another day for the politics of global economics, and the causes for Islamic terrorism...

Thank you for reading if you are this far.

[badgesareus]

I could pull some comparisons with current day politics in that regard too. But such things were probably not intended by the devs.

if what I read somewhere is true, that SureAI began writing this in 2011, then most of the similarities to contemporary world is endeed coincidental.

It's great to have the skills in German to provide this information. Goes way beyond mine (Ein Bier bitte).

Maybe if you're young, 5 years ago seems like ancient history, but for some of us it has just been the flick of an eyelash!

SureAI started planning Enderal when (more or less) Bethesda announced that Skyrim would include a construction kit, if I'm not mistaken. (mid to fall 2011; Skyrim was released 11-11-2011). I don't know that they immediately started writing the whole story then, as there was extensive give and take in the SureAI forum over the next few years. Nevertheless, the attacks of the World Trade Towers (9/11) happened 10 years earlier, and by 2011 the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were going strong, so there were plenty of current political events that were presaged at that time. And the fighting in Ex-Yugoslavia -- claims of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and sides taken based on religion, happened in the 1990s. Also, it would take little for the devs to slip in some dialogue relating to more recent international political events, even late in the development, perhaps just adding a few "More" options in the dialogues. I don't recall how Constantine's rant was initiated -- CALEB, Help!

When I started this topic, I made reference to a college exam question. Now I'm beginning to think it is more of a term paper (sorry if that is just an Americanism). I would like to think that Enderal is more than just a sophisticated graphic novel.