[Question] Leveling Up/Skill Tree Design Choice

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LostTruth64
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What was the reason to go from the traditional star skill tree system of Skyrim to what we have now? What was the design philosophy?

I ask because I find it somewhat odd to have something simple into something that is more complex and harder to execute. Im not talking about the actual skills themselves but accessing and leveling them up. Are there any plans to fill up the unused top space in the menu?
badgesareus
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Seems pretty simple now. Press "H" and see your skills. You read a skill book and your skill increases 1 point. Harder to exploit than in Skyrim, where, for example, you could raise your speechcraft to 100 just by committing a small crime, click on a guard, bribe him, and repeat a few hundred times.
Glycerin
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LostTruth64 hat geschrieben:
I ask because I find it somewhat odd to have something simple into something that is more complex and harder to execute. Im not talking about the actual skills themselves but accessing and leveling them up. Are there any plans to fill up the unused top space in the menu?
I think the reasoning behind this was to make it a conscious effort to choose your skills. I agree, the "learning-by-doing"-style in Skyrim is somewhat simpler, but you can't fully control what skills you actually want to raise. For example, in Skyrim you can train a skill you never really use, just to level up (and not loose too much money for trainers in the process).

Someone from SureAI once said, that the way you level up in Enderal (with two loading screens) is kind of a workaround, because Skyrim's skill menu is hardcoded and couldn't be changed or removed. It is even still accesible by a hotkey, though the menu no longer functions.
LostTruth64
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Wouldn't the work around be easier if they made the automatic skill progression to 0 or extremely low and that the only realistic way to level up is via the books and trainers? I personally find it a bit troublesome/time consuming to have to go through loading screens to check and recheck what I want to invest in. I know its possible to replicate their design goals into Skyrim's skills system but I digress.
badgesareus
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I think you are not being clear with your terminology. Skills are things like entropy magic, one-handed, lockpicking, etc., and they are seen quite easily with the H key, no loading screens. Perhaps you are referring to the memories in the 3 discipline trees which you access through meditation, which does involve loading screens. You refer to "automatic skill progression" but there is no automatic skill progression, nor any automatic progression of memories. You also refer to "trainers" but Enderal doesn't have trainers. You ask what was their design philosophy? What difference does it make? Would knowing their design philosophy regarding skills (if there is one) make any difference whether you play the game or not? Also, regarding the memory trees, there is quite a bit behind them, but you won't learn that until you get deep into the main quest. I just don't get the point of your question.
LostTruth64
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Yeah I was confusing skills and memories there but other than that, you took almost everything I said out of context. I wasnt implying that there was an automatic skill progression in this game because I know there is none, nor was I saying that there was trainers in this game. I was merely expressing that it is more convoluted than its needed to be and takes quite some time getting used to. I was also wondering if they could've produced the same results in modifying the current system instead of making it from scratch. Yeah, I found out about the H key within around two hours of playing and during that time I was using my gamepad (ps3 controller) the whole time. Would be nice for there to be an option to change that input to the controller as it can be annoying having to switch from gamepad to keyboard every now and then.

And no, whatever the answer may be wont impact my experience for all this is coming from is pure curiosity.
badgesareus
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I don't use a gamepad so I am not aware of what difficulties that might present. It sounds like having to use the gamepad and keyboard both would indeed be more complex than just using the keyboard and mouse playing on a PC, so your perspective is different from mine.

Sometimes I had the feeling (after 2 complete playthroughs) that SureAI changed some things just for the sake of changing them, or to display their talents and creativity. One example I think of is the change in fast travel. The type of fast travel, and even the question if there should be any, was hotly discussed during the development period a few years ago. Some people said they would feel more immersed by having to walk everywhere, but my time is valuable to me and I hate to waste it walking over the same ground time and time again; I wish I could just click on the map to travel to places I've already discovered. I also wish I could left-click through some of those long, scripted conversations, but I felt it was even worse watching the endless cut-scenes in Witcher 3. Well, good luck and enjoy the game.
LostTruth64
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Yeah let me tell you, the length/range between the keyboard and gamepad is drastic lol.

I have no problem about creativity as long as its properly implemented and decent. I completely understand the whole fast travel debate but then again, all fast travel is is an option. You dont have to fast travel everywhere. I dont mind having and using carriages as means of fast travel as long as its actually meaningful, convenient, and actually needing to invest in it as paying 50-100 gold in skyrim for the service is chump change. Plus fast travels actually does serve as a positive purpose mechanically since the game can crash at anytime too. If I was traveling to my destination for 20+ minutes and the game crashed, making me lose all my progress, I would just fast travel to either the closest place I crashed or said destination.
H3X1C
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I re-mapped the H key to the Xbox controller back button as that key isn't used due to wait being disabled, this should probably be the default setting tbh
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